Why Are All Composers Male?, Were women just not good enough? Options

[mrbouffant]

As per other responses, it was socially not acceptable for a woman to be seen to be proficient in this area. Even in the Victorian times, if a woman was musical she would typically learn the piano so that she could be seen to be accompanying (supporting) her husband who would probably play a melodious instrument (violin etc.)

There are some interesting letters from Mendelssohn's sister (Fanny Hensel) where she complains to her brother about the need to conform to the stereotypes that were dictated at that time. According to some commentators she was arguably more talented than her younger brother, but of course she didn't have the opportunities he did, with the result that her achievements are regarded largely by academics only.

Still, if you look back a long way you find the fabled abbess Hildegard of Bingen. From the late 19th century onwards there is a trickle of relatively well known and regarded female composers: Amy Beach, Dame Ethyl Smyth, Elisabeth Lutyens, Elizabeth Maconchy etc. etc. etc.

[sarah-flute]

Wasn't there a lady of the Bach family who wrote, or was she just written for (Anna Magdalena, possibly?)

I could be thinking of someone totally different! :)

[mrbouffant]

Wasn't there a lady of the Bach family who wrote, or was she just written for (Anna Magdalena, possibly?)

I could be thinking of someone totally different! :)

JSB's second wife...

[another crazy pianist]

Johann Sebastian Bach wrote that book of preludes for Anna Magdalena, apparently a beginning pianist at the time ! :P

[Watermelon sugar]

Strange this topic should appear now. I've just been listening to E. Lutyens' Dialogo and Ruth Gibbs' Symphony 4.

:huh:

[mrbouffant]

Strange this topic should appear now.  I've just been listening to E. Lutyens' Dialogo and Ruth Gibbs' Symphony 4. 

:huh:

Ruth Gipps?

[sarah-flute]

Oh right! I knew I'd seen the name somewhere.

'Fraid that was my best offer!

[Storini]

One of the most interesting living woman composers is Galina Ustvolskaya: really stunning and uncompromising music in every way. Here's a useful article about her: http://www.therestisnoise.com/2005/02/ustvolskaya.html .

[Watermelon sugar]

Ruth Gipps?

Now you have me wondering. This is a private recording. I shall check. Thanks for pointing it out.

:)

[Kai-Lei]

If you are interested in contemporary music I think you will find many feminine composers. There have been CDs dedicated to british female composers.

Kai-Lei

[sarai]

Diane Warren is a composer and she's a woman....

[Violinia]

Perhaps we're all being a teensty bit too politically correct here. Although they struggled to get into print in earlier times, women have been prolific writers of fiction and poetry for several generations now, so why not composers?

Even in current times I keep meeting people who tell me they're writing music for film or television and they're nearly always male.

There ARE differences between men and women and it's foolish to deny them or pretend they don't exist, and this doesn't for a moment mean that equal opportunities shouldn't be extended to all as a matter of principle.

But consider this: without thinking, clasp your hands together with interlocking fingers. Some of us will automatically put our left thumb on top of our right, and some of us will put our right thumb on top of our left. In the vast majority of cases, men will put the right thumb on top, and women the left. This must almost certainly be to do with which side of the brain is dominant; if the composing of music is more likely to stem from one side of the brain than the other, then it would figure that more of one gender will be good at it. A shame but a possibility nevertheless.

That's not to say that women weren't held down for years - they were, no question. And (I'm talking only of the Western world here) there still isn't equal pay for equal work - no question. And there's still a glass ceiling, although funnily enough not for women without children - think of Janet Street Porter for example. The fact is that most women with children just aren't prepared to farm their children out as much as they'd have to in order to rise to the top in the working world and stay there.

It's a complex subject, that's certain.

Violinia

[Deborah]

We've got onto the second page (admittedly, most of page two is an unsightly scrap between Semele and various people she suspects of being the late lamented Rhapsodin), and no-one's mentioned Alma Mahler. A composer in her own right, and wife of the great Gustav.

To pick up on mrbouffant's point, one other reason for young ladies to learn the piano was the theory that if they were spending all their time practicing piano, they couldn't be getting up to unladylike mischief elsewhere. Plus, it made a very audible chaperone!

[Storini]

...
Even in current times I keep meeting people who tell me they're writing music for film or television and they're nearly always male.
...

One notable exception is Debbie Wiseman who has written several excellent film scores. I really like the gorgeous one she did for Wilde (about the eponymous Oscar), and you can hear the main title theme at her web site http://www.debbiewiseman.co.uk/ , click Soundbytes.

[Thisisus]

Hm, I remember Semele disrupting the first messages I posted on this forum.

But to the point, the Bronte's are a fine example, possibly because of their unusual circumstances, of 'bringing women out'. Their rebellious writings were not liked at the time. Ann Bronte (in particular) regarding husbands!

Gisele Ben-Dor and Odaline de la Martinez have been very active in promoting females in music.

edit:
oh-oh, here we go again. This message was a response to Violinia and Deborah.