Scales ! :), A "how to" question this time Options

[MollyB]

When playing G major 3 octaves (on the violin), is it acceptable to play the top G (i.e. the final note on the ascending scale) by sliding your 3rd finger from F# to G rather than using the 4th finger? It makes for much more solid intonation but I dont know if its frowned upon?

[jojo]

When playing G major 3 octaves (on the violin), is it acceptable to play the top G (i.e. the final note on the ascending scale) by sliding your 3rd finger from F# to G rather than using the 4th finger? It makes for much more solid intonation but I dont know if its frowned upon?

Hi MollyB,
of course you can do that if that's what works for you each time with no problem!

I take it you do G major by going up to 3rd position on D string then over across to A string and up to 6th position to play your G and across to E string ending up playing D with 1st finger, E with 2nd F# with 3rd, then I can see how you really have to squeeze that 4th finger in not to be sharp with your G

I find it easier to do G major ascending by going up to third position on A string instead then across to E string and play A and B on Estring, then shift up to C with my first finger play C 1st finger, D 2nd finger, E 3rd finger, F# 4th finger and do a slightly extended 4th finger for the G.
I find that easier as my 3rd finger does not like extending and I try to avoid it. Give that a try and see if you like it better and stick to what you like and can do best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

ps remember when you said when you are descending you go straight down to 1st position on E string?
that would not work anymore if you do the ascending the way you do it though so watch out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) you'd have to do the ascending the way I described, on A string to descend all the way down to 1st position on E string (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[miffy]

You could go up to 3rd position on the A string, then the fingering on the E will be 12-12-123.
On the way down is then 321-321-321, taking you back to 1st position on the E string

[MollyB]

Thanks Jojo & Miffy for those suggestions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) At the moment I'm going into 3rd on the G-string, stay in 3rd on the D & A and yes, into 6th for the top notes on the E-string.

However, I'll play around with the suggestions you've both made and see which works best. Meanwhile its good to know they wont frown on a 3rd finger top G if I decide to go that route.

Thank you both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

You could go up to 3rd position on the A string, then the fingering on the E will be 12-12-123.
On the way down is then 321-321-321, taking you back to 1st position on the E string

very true,
when I said she could not go 'straight down' to first position I should have 'clarified' I meant straight down with 'just one shift', of course it is possible to go back down to first position on E string but it will imply more than one shift like Miffy explained above (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
thank Miffy for clearing it up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[miffy]

they certainly won't frown on a 3rd, if it works better, use it.
Isn't it harder, as in risk of a lumpier shift, going up on the G? I just find also that the tone is generally a little clearer staying in 1st until the A string.
Just a thought. But honestly, Molly, do what suits you best. What 'they' are looking for is a successful scale, it's only if it goes wrong that they might start looking at what you are doing - in fact, in the scale books I 'think' it says basically just that!

[MollyB]

Miffy, I agree that it is a messier shift going up to 3rd on G, but there was a good reason for it when I first looked at it.

I'm working with the Trinity syllabus and for Trinity, that scale is played 3 notes to a bow. 3 notes of equal length. You'd play, G-A-B on the down bow, and the shift to 3rd on C coincided with the up bow and seemed a sensible way to do it.

That was when I first started playing it a few weeks ago, but I want to try what you've suggested because I agree with you when you suggest that an A string shift will probable be cleaner and sound better.

PS: When you outlined the E string fingering below... are you suggesting;

A string- moving into 3rd position for D-E-F# (finger 1, 2, 3) then moving onto E
E string- G-A (1,2) B-C (1,2) D-E-F#-G (1,2,3,3)

You wouldn't use 4th finger G on the D string (which is what I'm currently doing)? Any particular reason or is that just personal choice?

[Arundodonuts]

Miffy, I agree that it is a messier shift

Isn't that some galactic phenomenon?

Actually all this reads like chess to me.

[miffy]

on the A string, you would have ABC, then shift to D on 1st finger followed by EF#G (2nd,3rd,4th).
E string would then read AB (12), CD(12), EF#G(123).
So no need for 4th on the E string.

Hope this makes sense.

[MollyB]

Miffy, I agree that it is a messier shift

Isn't that some galactic phenomenon?

Actually all this reads like chess to me.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Miffy, that makes perfect sense ( I've just I air-violin'ed the top octave just to make sure I understood you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

Thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

Miffy, that makes perfect sense ( I've just I air-violin'ed the top octave just to make sure I understood you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

Thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

mmmm on E string....1st finger A, 2nd B, then shift 1st finger C 2nd D, then shift 1st finger E 2nd Fsharp 3rd G....

It makes very good sense BUT if you had intonation problems squeezing your 4th finger against your 3rd finger, then surely squeezing your 3rd finger against your 2nd will be even more difficult as these are 2 'fat' fingers (excuse me...'wider' fingers)? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
this is indeed a different/alternative approach to a 3 octave G major scale, but I can't see how it will help with the intonation problem you were having MollyB.....
have you tried it and does it work? I can't see it working for me (but it's bed time now, I will try it tomorrow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) though the fourth finger extension always worked ok for me....)

[barncottagecat]

This is the fingering that Crabbers scale manual recommends for a 3 octave G major scale - this is how my daughter's teacher teaches her scales - he just shouts numbers at her. This works.......

change string at the commas ....

Going up - 0123, 0123, 0121234, 1212344
Coming down - 432121, 4321210, 3210, 3210

[jojo]

I just wanted to delete my post but this thing would not let me and am just too tired at 6:23 am to think of something else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

[miffy]

Why did you need to delete your post, Jojo?!
yes, 123 at the top if you don't like a 4, or 4-4, works very well, and makes the turnaround simpler for minors too, especially melodic ones. In fact every single one of my pupils use it.
But as with alot of things, it's personal choice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

Why did you need to delete your post, Jojo?!

because I wrote a load of nonsense (probably because I was still in deep sleep having just got out of bed 5 minutes earlier and not even having swithced the light on in the living room (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mornincoffee.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )
they really 'ought to' put a delete post feature in here for occasions like that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

yes, 123 at the top if you don't like a 4, or 4-4, works very well, and makes the turnaround simpler for minors too, especially melodic ones. In fact every single one of my pupils use it.
But as with alot of things, it's personal choice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
not just personal choice but also 'personal NEED' sometimes, ie: what your body dictates will work best for you with minimal effort/practice
for example: in Schindler's List I have a bit where on E string I have to do F-E (downward shift)....so a semitone just like F# G (upward shift), this semitone is not even as small as F# to G as it's lower down on the E string right?
I used to do 4th finger followed by 3rd....
well, my teacher got me to change it to 4th finger 4th finger as he spotted I used to be slightly flat with my E most of the times (ie was not squashing my 3rd finger enough against my 4th)!!
Guess someone with smaller fingers would have no problems straight away, or if I practiced that bit 'harder or for longer' I'd get it eventually, but my teacher believes in 100% good results wtih minimal efforts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) so he changed it to 4th finger and slide down a semitone with my 4th (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)