What Are You Learning?, ...and how's it going? Options

[Invidia]

Wow!! It's a monster of a piece that is beyond my abilities at the moment. And having heard you play in November, I have no doubt you'll do a great job of it. Pleased that your work on it is going well!

Not so hard ... I could sight read the first two pages (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)

Am I the only pianist who actually doesn't like Rachmaninoff 3rd? I much prefer all his other piano and orchestra works, even though I have the utmost respect for anyone who can actually play the 3rd!

I also did not like (or understand) it much when I first heard it. It takes much more listening to "get into" it than No 2 (which has instant appeal).

I was actually the reverse. The first time I heard the 3rd I loved it. The 2nd I listened to once, shrugged and didn't give a relisten until a composition of mine started sounding like the 1st mvt opening (after the solo chords) and I went through every recording I owned because I knew it wasn't original and didn't want uni having me for plagiarism...

Chopinzee- what made you think I was an elegant lady? o.O

[Chopinzee]

Well, i did'nt know the real meaning of the word until a couple of minutes ago. Sounds very much like a name though, perhaps it reminded me of Lydia. Looked on Wiki ...it appears relative to coveting, envy, jealousy...from Latin. However, it does also mention something to do with a Godess, and shows a painting by Waterhouse 'Circe Invidia'...

[Pixie*Porsche]

I've started playing piano again properly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So I thought I'd post up what I'm learning -

a few things out of the grade 5 book 2009-10 version,
No.3 out of the Camilieri Sonatas (no I can't spell that and I'm rubbish at remembering names for pieces)
Some simple accompaniments for pupils (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[saxophile]

My To Do list following this week's lesson:

- polishing 2nd half of the Schubert Sonata in A (D664? can't remember and too lazy to go and check) 2nd movement

- next page of Debussy's Reverie - now onto page 4 after a mere *cough*six*cough* months (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (Though I only had about 4 lessons in that period, in fairness...)

- learning the middle section of Granados' Berceuse properly, rather than half-sightreading it each time I come to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

- have a look at the new Grade 5 pieces, since I'm tentatively thinking about finally sitting Grade 5 after 25 years [I was on my third set of Grade 5 pieces when I finally gave up lessons as a teenager (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ]. I've done this bit of my homework already, and I don't like any of the first 3 list A pieces at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The Bach "Air" in particular is weird at the beginning - it really sounds as if the bar lines are in the wrong place until about half way through the first page (and that's not just my poor playing!). The B and C lists are rather more promising - the Gershwin should kill or cure my hemiola issues, for sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) , and the Elegy by the Latvian composer is beautiful....

[corenfa]

Still working on Debussy Toccata. If I was able to dedicate the same amount of energy to anything else productive as I do to learning this piece... I would probably be quite rich. Not that that means I can play it. I can approximate it, but every time I sit down to it I find something else that I missed. I wonder when it will wear off. I really don't advocate this method of learning an instrument, but "strike while the iron is hot" seems to be appropriate here. Since I'm not bored of it yet, and I'm making progress (which interestingly enough is showing up in improvement in other pieces that I take out and play now and then), I shall continue this approach. I am finally developing the flexibility that I need to play it even at 3/4 speed, and the good thing is that there is no sign of my tendonitis reappearing, either from typing or from piano.

Am also learning some accompaniments for Egham which are all nice pieces to work on. Looking forward to hearing them put together with the soloists.

[JamesK]

After getting my result of grade7 back (pass), I am working on grade 8 pieces
B2:

• Chopin Grande Valse Brillinate no.1 op.18
• Schumann Traumerei

[Pixie*Porsche]

I've started playing piano again properly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So I thought I'd post up what I'm learning -

a few things out of the grade 5 book 2009-10 version,
No.3 out of the Camilieri Sonatas (no I can't spell that and I'm rubbish at remembering names for pieces)
Some simple accompaniments for pupils (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Clementi not camillieri thats what I'm doing on clarinet, lol!

[corenfa]

With one week to Egham I am trying to imagine the solo lines to the accompaniments that I am playing- even though I know all the pieces, it is still hard to try and hear the solo going on when it isn't really there. One of the pieces is a song which I can at least sing to myself even though it sounds horrific (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (horrific when i sing it I hasten to add, not horrific because it is an awful piece!)

I am seeing how fast I can work up my other piece - not a hope of doing it at actual speed but that is Ok - and I just had a eureka moment which I mentioned on another thread, that I want to write out again so I won't forget... apologies for length.

i have been practicing this by being mentally conscientious - thinking very hard about hand placement, how to move my whole arm so that I can play the fast awkward bits as smoothly as possible (and learning in the process that my previous perception of piano playing involving the hand remaining in the same position and just moving from left to right is totally wrong). I have been speeding up gradually and playing each passage at a steadily increasing pace.

I have been trying to maintain the same degree of thinking when playing faster and faster, and it has not been working. At some point my brain just shuts down and my hands go like the centipede who forgot which leg goes next - I can almost see how it is possible to develop focal dystonia from this, because I honestly feel like something short-circuits in my head and I can't control my fingers any more.

I suddenly remembered something my horn teacher said many years ago which was something to the effect of "try to not control what you are playing so much, you will find that fast things come easier". I didn't know what she meant then, but I tried to do it with this passage - to just let the muscle memory take over. It seems to have worked. I do not know if I will be able to reproduce this on demand, but I guess that is where practice comes in.

[lilly763]

With one week to Egham I am trying to imagine the solo lines to the accompaniments that I am playing- even though I know all the pieces, it is still hard to try and hear the solo going on when it isn't really there. One of the pieces is a song which I can at least sing to myself even though it sounds horrific (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (horrific when i sing it I hasten to add, not horrific because it is an awful piece!)

I am seeing how fast I can work up my other piece - not a hope of doing it at actual speed but that is Ok - and I just had a eureka moment which I mentioned on another thread, that I want to write out again so I won't forget... apologies for length.

i have been practicing this by being mentally conscientious - thinking very hard about hand placement, how to move my whole arm so that I can play the fast awkward bits as smoothly as possible (and learning in the process that my previous perception of piano playing involving the hand remaining in the same position and just moving from left to right is totally wrong). I have been speeding up gradually and playing each passage at a steadily increasing pace.

I have been trying to maintain the same degree of thinking when playing faster and faster, and it has not been working. At some point my brain just shuts down and my hands go like the centipede who forgot which leg goes next - I can almost see how it is possible to develop focal dystonia from this, because I honestly feel like something short-circuits in my head and I can't control my fingers any more.

I suddenly remembered something my horn teacher said many years ago which was something to the effect of "try to not control what you are playing so much, you will find that fast things come easier". I didn't know what she meant then, but I tried to do it with this passage - to just let the muscle memory take over. It seems to have worked. I do not know if I will be able to reproduce this on demand, but I guess that is where practice comes in.

Agreed, it's very difficult to "give up control" and just let yourself play, but it is ultimately the most effective way, especially during performance situations. On another forum, one apparently knowledgeable poster argued that musicians who were too "intellectual" find it too difficult to perform because music just goes too fast for us to be able to think consciously about it as we are performing - I don't know if this is true, but it seems to have helped me and it's an interesting idea! But on the other hand, one cannot rely entirely on muscle memory, since that can lead to "blanking out" - so different types of memory have to work together. It's a fine line to draw!

I haven't been taking regular lessons so I don't really have a "prescribed" repertoire, but my teacher vaguely mentioned that she thought I should play some more Liszt, so I'm currently trying to learn Sonetto 104 and see if I can subtly or not so subtly talk her into letting me perform it the upcoming studio recital... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[corenfa]

...
Agreed, it's very difficult to "give up control" and just let yourself play, but it is ultimately the most effective way, especially during performance situations. On another forum, one apparently knowledgeable poster argued that musicians who were too "intellectual" find it too difficult to perform because music just goes too fast for us to be able to think consciously about it as we are performing - I don't know if this is true, but it seems to have helped me and it's an interesting idea! But on the other hand, one cannot rely entirely on muscle memory, since that can lead to "blanking out" - so different types of memory have to work together. It's a fine line to draw!
...

Apologies to this other poster (who is not on this forum?) but I do think that is not correct.. I think it is how you use the "intellectualism" (I am really struggling for a better word here). I definitely can be accused of overthinking, but most of the time that is used to teach myself how to learn. I am intentionally using the awkward phrase "teach myself how to learn" because that's been a big factor in my learning an instrument, whether horn or piano.

Completely agree about not relying totally on muscle memory. I try to have checkpoints where I match up what I am hearing with the mental image of the score. It seems to have helped so far but ask me in a week if I've got through that piece at Egham without a memory lapse...

Edit: changed to "not correct" from a different and possibly more emotive word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[lilly763]

...
Agreed, it's very difficult to "give up control" and just let yourself play, but it is ultimately the most effective way, especially during performance situations. On another forum, one apparently knowledgeable poster argued that musicians who were too "intellectual" find it too difficult to perform because music just goes too fast for us to be able to think consciously about it as we are performing - I don't know if this is true, but it seems to have helped me and it's an interesting idea! But on the other hand, one cannot rely entirely on muscle memory, since that can lead to "blanking out" - so different types of memory have to work together. It's a fine line to draw!
...

Apologies to this other poster (who is not on this forum?) but I do think that is not correct.. I think it is how you use the "intellectualism" (I am really struggling for a better word here). I definitely can be accused of overthinking, but most of the time that is used to teach myself how to learn. I am intentionally using the awkward phrase "teach myself how to learn" because that's been a big factor in my learning an instrument, whether horn or piano.

Completely agree about not relying totally on muscle memory. I try to have checkpoints where I match up what I am hearing with the mental image of the score. It seems to have helped so far but ask me in a week if I've got through that piece at Egham without a memory lapse...

Edit: changed to "not correct" from a different and possibly more emotive word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I think (and I might be wrong since this is something I read on a different forum quite a while ago: apologies to that poster, wherever he may be, if I'm taking things out of context) the poster was not referring to the learning process, but just performing. He wasn't saying that intellectualism shouldn't play a part in learning the notes and developing interpretations, or in the slower, broader process of attaining control of the instrument, but that "thinking" about every note and motion during performance is not realistic given the "speed of reaction" necessary to play accurately and the fact that our "thoughts" are more likely to be affected by nerves than our muscles. Using terminology loosely, but I hope my meaning is clear.

[corenfa]

...
Agreed, it's very difficult to "give up control" and just let yourself play, but it is ultimately the most effective way, especially during performance situations. On another forum, one apparently knowledgeable poster argued that musicians who were too "intellectual" find it too difficult to perform because music just goes too fast for us to be able to think consciously about it as we are performing - I don't know if this is true, but it seems to have helped me and it's an interesting idea! But on the other hand, one cannot rely entirely on muscle memory, since that can lead to "blanking out" - so different types of memory have to work together. It's a fine line to draw!
...

Apologies to this other poster (who is not on this forum?) but I do think that is not correct.. I think it is how you use the "intellectualism" (I am really struggling for a better word here). I definitely can be accused of overthinking, but most of the time that is used to teach myself how to learn. I am intentionally using the awkward phrase "teach myself how to learn" because that's been a big factor in my learning an instrument, whether horn or piano.

Completely agree about not relying totally on muscle memory. I try to have checkpoints where I match up what I am hearing with the mental image of the score. It seems to have helped so far but ask me in a week if I've got through that piece at Egham without a memory lapse...

Edit: changed to "not correct" from a different and possibly more emotive word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I think (and I might be wrong since this is something I read on a different forum quite a while ago: apologies to that poster, wherever he may be, if I'm taking things out of context) the poster was not referring to the learning process, but just performing. He wasn't saying that intellectualism shouldn't play a part in learning the notes and developing interpretations, or in the slower, broader process of attaining control of the instrument, but that "thinking" about every note and motion during performance is not realistic given the "speed of reaction" necessary to play accurately and the fact that our "thoughts" are more likely to be affected by nerves than our muscles. Using terminology loosely, but I hope my meaning is clear.

OK, I see what you mean. Yes I agree!

[Benjy]

Has anyone played Schoenberg's 6 little pieces? It's probably going to be my next project.

Jon

[Solari]

Has anyone played Schoenberg's 6 little pieces? It's probably going to be my next project.

Jon

Just smash the keys and make a discordant noise? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) That's the impression I got last time I heard Schoenberg! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I'm sure he's written some nice stuff, I just haven't bothered to seek it out yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Benjy]

Has anyone played Schoenberg's 6 little pieces? It's probably going to be my next project.

Jon

Just smash the keys and make a discordant noise? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) That's the impression I got last time I heard Schoenberg! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I'm sure he's written some nice stuff, I just haven't bothered to seek it out yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ah, but it's a very organised discordant noise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I have to say that it looks somewhat alarming on the page!