Left Arm Too Stiff To Play Viola? Options

[cricklewood]

Hello,
Sorry this is such a long post. Would appreciate some opinions/advice. I play piano (Grade 7 coming up shortly!). Last summer I decided to start viola as a second instrument. I'm 5 ft 11 ins and have fairly large hands (can span a 10th on piano), but my arms aren't particularly long and neither are my fingers. The shop said a 16 inch viola was right for me, and my teacher (who's great) seemed OK with that. But I find that I just cannot put my fingertips on the C or G strings, or use 4th finger, unless I twist my shoulder, elbow, wrist and hand as far round as they will go, and then some more. Of course this causes unbearable tension all the way from shoulder to hand, so I can't hold the position for even a minute. I've tried moving the shoulder and chin rests round so they're on the side of the lower bout rather than on the bottom, which brings the fingerboard round to an easier angle, and that seemed to help; but then the instrument is in the wrong position for straight bowing so that's not a sustainable solution. I've also tried holding the viola at a 45 degree angle to the vertical (rotated around the long axis) so that my fingers don't have to reach so far round, but then it becomes tricky to hold and almost impossible to make a good sound on the A string because the bow is practically vertical. It was then suggested that I could hold the viola more horizontally when playing the D/A strings and rotate it when I needed to go to C/G, in a gracefully athletic sort of way. In early lessons I discussed all this with my teacher and we agreed that as I got used to playing, things might loosen up. But that doesn't seem to be happening. I'm 52 so I guess those joints are not going to loosen up much, unless I can find some miracle cure. I'm coming to the conclusion that I should try to play a 14 inch viola, and if I can't manage that size with my left hand then I'm stuck. Any stiff old beginners who've had similar problems? Anyone have any advice? All suggestions gratefully received!

[cricklewood]

Thanks rosfrog for replying! I've tried with various shoulder rests and without, but it doesn't seem to alter the basic problem.

I've now been to the shop and tried a 14 inch viola, and it didn't make a great deal of difference. The person in the shop said 'now just turn your hand around so your fingers are on the strings... oh, you can't!' It's not about hand size, in fact the 14 inch would be a bit small for my hand (if I could get it in position). Maybe my joints are just strange.

I'm going to review it with my teacher, but unless we can find a workable compromise it looks like cello for me -- tried one in the shop and have no problems with the left hand position.

[Arundodonuts]

Thanks rosfrog for replying! I've tried with various shoulder rests and without, but it doesn't seem to alter the basic problem.

I've now been to the shop and tried a 14 inch viola, and it didn't make a great deal of difference. The person in the shop said 'now just turn your hand around so your fingers are on the strings... oh, you can't!' It's not about hand size, in fact the 14 inch would be a bit small for my hand (if I could get it in position). Maybe my joints are just strange.

I'm going to review it with my teacher, but unless we can find a workable compromise it looks like cello for me -- tried one in the shop and have no problems with the left hand position.

When I looked at your thread earlier I thought the size of the body would be largely irrelevant, since your problem is moving across the strings. Try this:

Hold your left arm as though you are going to start arm wrestling - arm vertical, elbow a little in front of your body, forearm angled stlightly "forwards". Now swivel your arm from the shoulder so your hand goes down and right across your body and your elbow goes up and left. You should be able to get horizontal without any problem. Come back to vertical then try to go the other way, hand left and down, elbow right across your body (remember to keep swivelling from the shoulder). How far can you get? a 45 degree angle should be fine. This swivelling from your shoulder is what you should be doing when you move across the strings, so tuck your viola under you chin, turn your hand into the playing position and do the same exercise again above the fingerboard, elbow out for the A string, elbow in for the C string (yes you really do need to tuck the elbow well in to get properly over the C string).

Any help?
m

Thanks rosfrog for replying! I've tried with various shoulder rests and without, but it doesn't seem to alter the basic problem.

I've now been to the shop and tried a 14 inch viola, and it didn't make a great deal of difference. The person in the shop said 'now just turn your hand around so your fingers are on the strings... oh, you can't!' It's not about hand size, in fact the 14 inch would be a bit small for my hand (if I could get it in position). Maybe my joints are just strange.

I'm going to review it with my teacher, but unless we can find a workable compromise it looks like cello for me -- tried one in the shop and have no problems with the left hand position.

When I looked at your thread earlier I thought the size of the body would be largely irrelevant, since your problem is moving across the strings. Try this:

Hold your left arm as though you are going to start arm wrestling - arm vertical, elbow a little in front of your body, forearm angled stlightly "forwards". Now swivel your arm from the shoulder so your hand goes down and right across your body and your elbow goes up and left. You should be able to get horizontal without any problem. Come back to vertical then try to go the other way, hand left and down, elbow right across your body (remember to keep swivelling from the shoulder). How far can you get? a 45 degree angle should be fine. This swivelling from your shoulder is what you should be doing when you move across the strings, so tuck your viola under you chin, turn your hand into the playing position and do the same exercise again above the fingerboard, elbow out for the A string, elbow in for the C string (yes you really do need to tuck the elbow well in to get properly over the C string).

Any help?

[kenm]

Come back to vertical then try to go the other way, hand left and down, elbow right across your body (remember to keep swivelling from the shoulder). How far can you get? a 45 degree angle should be fine.[..]

I should have tried that in 1956, when I took up viola. I might then have been warned off by my failure to get much past 30 degrees from the vertical, instead of giving up after six months, when it became apparent that vibrato would remain forever impossible. The 'cello (which I took up in 1969) and the double bass (which I have played happily since 1977) are much less demanding of joint flexibility

For the present, bass still has rarity value, and gets you into better orchestras than the same technical standard on upper strings. 'Cello seems to vary by locality, but the Reading area has lots of good players.

[cricklewood]

Hi pushpull,

Thanks for this fascinating test! Here are the results:

"Hold your left arm as though you are going to start arm wrestling - arm vertical, elbow a little in front of your body, forearm angled stlightly "forwards". Now swivel your arm from the shoulder so your hand goes down and right across your body and your elbow goes up and left. You should be able to get horizontal without any problem. "

Not only that, I can go a whole 180 degrees so my forearm is pointing at the floor.

"Come back to vertical then try to go the other way, hand left and down, elbow right across your body (remember to keep swivelling from the shoulder). How far can you get? a 45 degree angle should be fine."

I'm struggling to turn even five degrees from the vertical in that direction, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

"This swivelling from your shoulder is what you should be doing when you move across the strings, so tuck your viola under you chin, turn your hand into the playing position and do the same exercise again above the fingerboard, elbow out for the A string, elbow in for the C string (yes you really do need to tuck the elbow well in to get properly over the C string)."

So I guess that explains why I just can't do it.

Any help?

Yes indeed ... thanks again.

[Arundodonuts]

Hi pushpull,

"Come back to vertical then try to go the other way, hand left and down, elbow right across your body (remember to keep swivelling from the shoulder). How far can you get? a 45 degree angle should be fine."

I'm struggling to turn even five degrees from the vertical in that direction, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Actually doing this test with ANO, they couldn't do it either, so I must be odd. But, you do need to be able to get your elbow across to the right in order that you can get your fingers over the C string properly and DO think about rotating from the shoulder.