What's A Diatonic? Options

[TshepoM]

please help me out here... What's a diatonic scale and how is it different from the traditional scale?

[corenfa]

please help me out here... What's a diatonic scale and how is it different from the traditional scale?

I thought that a diatonic scale was a major or a minor scale (I used to think of it as "not chromatic"), but Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale has proved me wrong (if you trust wikipedia that is). Apparently the set of diatonic scales includes also the church modes (Ionian, Aeolian, Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian and I forget the rest).

So the "traditional" major and minor scales are a subset of the set of all diatonic scales... I think.

[Louise H]

My understanding is that the modes are all scales of varying patterns - ie the semitones are in different places depending on which note you start on and this is what makes the sound of the scale different, for example between major/minor.

Ionian mode is the standard major scale so if you start/end on C for example, you have C major on all the white notes with the semitones between E/F and B/C. The other major scales are all Ionian mode but the sharps and flats appear where there should be semitones - 3rd/4th degree of the scale and 7th/8th degree.

Aeolian mode is the natural minor scale so if you start/end on A for example and play all the white notes you have A natural minor, where the semitones are B/C (2nd/3rd degrees) and E/F (5th/6th degrees). If you play an Aeolian scale starting on D, you would have to play a Bflat in order to maintain the pattern and you would then get a D natural minor scale. There are then the variations on this for the harmonic/melodic minor scales.

Dorian mode starting on D on all the white notes has semitones at E/F (2nd/3rd degrees again) and then B/C (6th/7th degrees).

I don't know the other modes well enough without looking them up but if you go through them, the pattern between each one is slightly different and this is what makes them distinctive in sound.

Louise

[maggiemay]

Starting on C, you have Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Lochrian.

Think that's right. Of course they can be transposed - but that gives you the pattern if you play the white notes on a keyboard.

[Mad Tom]

I think a diatonic uses aspartame instead of sugar, as in regular tonic. Either sort goes well with gin.

[missypiano]

I think a diatonic uses aspartame instead of sugar, as in regular tonic. Either sort goes well with gin.

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[Juniper]

I think a diatonic uses aspartame instead of sugar, as in regular tonic. Either sort goes well with gin.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Arundodonuts]

please help me out here... What's a diatonic scale and how is it different from the traditional scale?

I thought that a diatonic scale was a major or a minor scale (I used to think of it as "not chromatic"), but Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale has proved me wrong (if you trust wikipedia that is). Apparently the set of diatonic scales includes also the church modes (Ionian, Aeolian, Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian and I forget the rest).

So the "traditional" major and minor scales are a subset of the set of all diatonic scales... I think.

Yes I agree with that. Diatonic though is simply a way of describing something which contains ONLY the notes of the scale (whatever that might be) - i.e. no chromaticism.

Many instruments, largely folk, are diatonic (tuned to a specific scale). The melodeon (button accordion) I play is diatonic - it has two rows of buttons, one tuned to Gmaj and one to Dmaj. Mouthorgans and penny whistle are the same which is why they come in different keys. Bagpipes of various sorts are diatonic though often have extra keys grafted on for a bit of chromaticism.

[Cyrilla]

And of course diatony differs from pentatony in that there are no semitones in the latter (no fa or ti).

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[TshepoM]

And of course diatony differs from pentatony in that there are no semitones in the latter (no fa or ti).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So that's the difference between the two? Semitones?

[Cyrilla]

A major pentatonic scale is related to a diatonic major scale in that it possesses the same 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th degrees - but the 4th and 7th are 'missing' - and as the semitones in a diatonic major scale are between the 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th degrees - they are not there!

So there are no minor 2nds to be found (nor their inversion, major 7ths) in pentatonic scales.

Does that help?

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[TshepoM]

A major pentatonic scale is related to a diatonic major scale in that it possesses the same 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th degrees - but the 4th and 7th are 'missing' - and as the semitones in a diatonic major scale are between the 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th degrees - they are not there!

So there are no minor 2nds to be found (nor their inversion, major 7ths) in pentatonic scales.

Does that help?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It does.

[Dulciana]

A major pentatonic scale is related to a diatonic major scale in that it possesses the same 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th degrees - but the 4th and 7th are 'missing' - and as the semitones in a diatonic major scale are between the 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th degrees - they are not there!

So there are no minor 2nds to be found (nor their inversion, major 7ths) in pentatonic scales.

Does that help?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It does.

Yes it does.
Where do the 'dia' and 'penta' prefixes come from? What exactly do these mean? I know penta means 5, but why 'dia'?

[Arundodonuts]

A major pentatonic scale is related to a diatonic major scale in that it possesses the same 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th degrees - but the 4th and 7th are 'missing' - and as the semitones in a diatonic major scale are between the 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th degrees - they are not there!

So there are no minor 2nds to be found (nor their inversion, major 7ths) in pentatonic scales.

Does that help?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It does.

Yes it does.
Where do the 'dia' and 'penta' prefixes come from? What exactly do these mean? I know penta means 5, but why 'dia'?

dia is a Greek prefix for "through". So diatonic means "through the tones" - or something similar. Presumably literally "through ONLY those tones included in the scale".

[fsharpminor]

Oh I thought a diatonic was a 'pick me up beverage' for someone overweight.