Advice Needed, disorganised parents... Options

[Claire21]

Wooo, loads of replies while I wasn't looking over the weekend. Thanks everyone!

I suppose I'm on different footing to a lot of you as I have a 'proper' job, and just do a bit of music teaching on the side because I enjoy it and it keeps my hand in. The parents know this, in this case, so probably think it doesn't 'matter' so much if they mess me around - I still have an income from elsewhere. (If anything it matters more, as I could be spending that half an hour doing work for my main job!)

The parents' 'deadline' is this friday (4 weeks since last lesson - plenty long enough, I think!), so I will write to them then. I'll keep you posted what happens next!

[lilmizbloodbath]

Am I not right in thinking that if you take a student/parebt to court over non-payment they would have to pay your legal fees if you won (which if you have a written contract should be the case)?

Another way to make contracts less scary to students and parents is not to call it a contract. I offer a free half hour intoductory lesson (often followed by their normal paid lesson - i teach flute and sax and some students can spend the whole first lesson just getting their instruments checked & setup and making their first sound which always seemed a bit of a dispointment to me that I couldn't get them further in their normal time) which includes time to read and discuss the "Tuition Agreement" and worded it so that it states what the pupil must do followed by what I must do i.e.

In the event the Student discontinues lesson with insufficient notice, the Student/Parent/Guardian will be liable to pay for the lessons not taken during the notice period. In the event the Teacher discontinues lesson with insufficient notice, the Teacher will refund payment for the lessons not taken during the notice period.

Most of the points in the agreement are in that form. I've just started teaching but so far no one has wanted to make any changes. I also charge one month in advance with late payments incurring a charge of £5 a week, my reasoning being if I don't get paid and I miss a direct debit the bank will charge me at least £30.

[Semele]

Interesting post.

Yes they do have to pay for the Court fees plus interest and travel charges....plus baliff charges and so on, if they think they are really clever.

I call my contract " Terms of Tuition" and usually offer a FOC consultation where I hand them my Terms and explain the trial period etc.

New one on me charging a fiver for late fees.I think that's taking it a little far though.

As for the Notice period I state: "4 weeks notice must be given if tuition is to be discontinued.Pupils may pay for 4 lessons and reserve the right to accept tuition up to that point of notice. If tuition is to be terminated immediately payment in full for 4 lessons is required.I reserve the right to terminate lessons at any given time."

If they cancel in the middle of the month I usually let them off depending on their attitude or I make sure they pay the difference if they are rude and think they don't need to pay,like not contacting me to let me know,as an example,or denying ever receiving the Terms.

[Semele]

PS Another thing worth attention is not taking on a pupil aged 17 or below under your contract.They are still classed as minors.Even if they pay you must still get the parent to agree to the contract...otherwise the contract is void.You can't sue a minor.

[Semele]

The parents' 'deadline' is this friday (4 weeks since last lesson - plenty long enough, I think!), so I will write to them then. I'll keep you posted what happens next!

You have given them far too long.If they haven't the courtesy to contact after a week I contact them.

[lilmizbloodbath]

New one on me charging a fiver for late fees.I think that's taking it a little far though.

Was advised by some teachers I know to do it as most of the time the student or parent will try and avoid extra charges at all costs. They have never needed to add a charge yet. You get charged late fees by plenty of companies with the idea being you try to do it as little as possible and the way I see it is that the same applies here.

PS Another thing worth attention is not taking on a pupil aged 17 or below under your contract.They are still classed as minors.Even if they pay you must still get the parent to agree to the contract...otherwise the contract is void.You can't sue a minor.

I have three signatory lines teacher, student and parent/guardian. I get the student to sign anyway to indicate they've read it, then their parent/guardian signs too. Also throughout the agreement if refers to Student/Parent/Guardian. Means you just have to have one standard document for it.

[Semele]

I have three signatory lines teacher, student and parent/guardian. I get the student to sign anyway to indicate they've read it, then their parent/guardian signs too. Also throughout the agreement if refers to Student/Parent/Guardian. Means you just have to have one standard document for it.

But if things go wrong I assume you only have to sue the parent/guardian?

I can see both your point through. My eldest ,who has just started secondary school,has had to sign a few forms.

I also except the point that companies will charge you if you pay late.Luckily if they "forget" to pay me at the beginning of the month,they either drop the money in the next day or pay me the next lesson.

Just wish to say this.I can't fault a certain electric/gas company.Despite Accruread coming in my house on a regular basis the readings were not getting through to the company.So peeps,be aware of this.

As I pay by DD I never bothered to check the readings.Received letter saying they were increasing DD by £30 per month.I don't think so.I promptly changed suppliers.Having looked into this further,companies contract out to Accueread,so it wasn't their fault.

I have spoken to a manager at my old company and explained I can't pay the difference all in one go.They gave me the option of paying it up to 2 years interest free. I have opted to pay over 12 months.Excellent service.

I'm now going to phone the new company up each time I receive the bill and give them a consumer reading.Accueread are not being allowed in my house except once every 2 years as they have to by Law.I took great delight in telling the Accuread guy to get lost the other day as they can't be bothered to send on the readings to the company :angry: :angry: :angry:

Sorry to have gone off topic,but hope this helps peeps.

[lilmizbloodbath]

Had the same problem but neither the reading that were taken by Accueread nor the one we gave to our supplier online got through for most of a year. The one we gave them direct by telephone were just after we'd moved and we were told we could manage it all online.

As a result they worked out we owed them over £300 and the DDs jump from £30 a month to £96. Would switch but can't until we have paid off the money. Although thinking back, now they've brought in their price rises it all seems a little too convienient that we can't move companies. Ahh well these things happen.


Anyway...

I never planned for a charge to be strictly enforced, just as a major deterent and last resort. If someone comes to me and says sorry got some cash flow problems can I pay you on such and such a date that should be fine and gives me time to plan around it.

Yeah you would sue the Parent/Guardian if matters got that bad.

[Semele]

Had the same problem but neither the reading that were taken by Accueread nor the one we gave to our supplier online got through for most of a year. The one we gave them direct by telephone were just after we'd moved and we were told we could manage it all online.

As a result they worked out we owed them over £300 and the DDs jump from £30 a month to £96. Would switch but can't until we have paid off the money. Although thinking back, now they've brought in their price rises it all seems a little too convienient that we can't move companies. Ahh well these things happen.


Anyway...

I never planned for a charge to be strictly enforced, just as a major deterent and last resort. If someone comes to me and says sorry got some cash flow problems can I pay you on such and such a date that should be fine and gives me time to plan around it.

Yeah you would sue the Parent/Guardian if matters got that bad.

I have already switched suppliers and cancelled the DDs with the old supplier.I think if you want to switch suppliers,do it,cancel the DD online after you have received notification from your new supplier.Phone them up and give them your meter readings. Then speak to a manager ( you might really have to push at the advisers to do this ) of your old supplier with details of your meter readings ( my manager got in contact directly with new supplier ) and then they will arrange for you to pay off the difference.

Worked for me and I didn't even have a plan.Accuread didn't get in my house either.

The old supplier can't do anything ie sue you,because you have come to an arrangement with them.But you must do it after you know the new supplier has taken over from the old. Usually,with DDs,they make sure you are in credit with them,not the other way round. I just wish they did it monthly like my phone supplier.Much easier to keep in control when you are watching every penny.

It might be worth a phone call to your existing supplier to see how much you now owe out of interest.

Sorry to have gone off topic here.

[musicmanNZ]

I feel like putting in my 2p's worth .. as a paying parent.

My son learns 4 instruments and all of the teachers structure the payment differently. :blink:
Drumming - straight 4 weekly invoice, payable in advance. Contract was signed
Piano Accordion - monthly invoice in arrears. Some flexibility with missed lessons provided she is given notice.
Piano - cash (!), end of each lesson. University teacher who only has about 5 child pupils , all of whom have 'auditioned ' to be taught by her so we are very aware of the privilege. I don't think anyone ever misses a lesson - certainly we don't unless v sick then no charge
Singing - total flexibility. This was the arrangement at the start so we both knew where we stood. She isn't always available to teach and in return accepts that on a few occassions we aren't available to come. No bills, no invoices .. she tends to forget so I keep a note on the calander and pay every 10 lesons ( which may be spread over 2 terms)

Which do I prefer ?? Personally the two who invoice, although the cash piano isn't too bad except I always end up rushing to the bank beforehand!

I think the poster who commented that a laisse faire attitude to payment is indicitive of a similarly relaxed, non committed attitude to lessons hit the nail on the head.

Music, in this house, is afforded high priority ( you might have already guessed ) and tutors are spoken of respectfully and treated likewise with regard to payment.

[Claire21]

Update time:

My nice but firm letter (with bill) has produced a slightly grovelling email, and the request for more lessons. Part of me wants to tell them to get lost (I don't need the money desparately), but I do like the child concerned, and don't have anything against her personally.

I will definitely ask for a month's (or term's?) payment in advance from now on, but I can't really think of a solution to the turning-up-on-empty-house's-doorstep problem... Other than just to grit my teeth and take the cash...

[ringaringa]

But crucially did they pay?

[Claire21]

But crucially did they pay?

Not yet, but seeing as I sent them a letter in the post, and they emailed me back, that's probably understandable... I'm trusting that they'll give it me next time I see them!

[ringaringa]

You are insane - get them to drop the money owing around to you. What if you make another trip and they are "out".

[Claire21]

Hmm, good point.
:unsure:

I evidently have much too trusting a nature.