Vat Relief On Instruments, Exact Wording Options

[Ayshah]

This topic interests me as it was becoming buried in another forum I thought I would see start a new line here.

This is the synopsis:

UK Customs & Excise have laid down rules to ensure the scheme is not abused:
The student must be in full time education at an LEA School.
The student must be receiving music tuition at the school.
The instrument must be appropriate for the pupils needs.
The instrument must be portable.
The instrument must be handed over from school to pupil in a designated teaching room.
The instrument must be charged to the pupil/pupil’s parents at or below the school’s (ex.vat) cost.

Some LEA Head of Music Service are using their common sense to provide instruments and yet others are sticking to the absolute letter.

My own Music Service refuses to discriminate against any school age child and includes Independent school and Home Schooled kids in this. He will facilitate the purchase of most instruments for all school age kids regardless of whether they are taught in school or are a member of a school ensemble. He does make sure they pick the instrument up from his office or delivers it himself. He also provides a 12 month period to pay for it.

What are other forumites experiencing and do you think its right that only kids in LEA schools, in Ensembles with peri teaching should have access to this facility?

[jojo]

This topic interests me as it was becoming buried in another forum I thought I would see start a new line here.

This is the synopsis:

UK Customs & Excise have laid down rules to ensure the scheme is not abused:
The student must be in full time education at an LEA School.
The student must be receiving music tuition at the school.
The instrument must be appropriate for the pupils needs.
The instrument must be portable.
The instrument must be handed over from school to pupil in a designated teaching room.
The instrument must be charged to the pupil/pupil’s parents at or below the school’s (ex.vat) cost.

Some LEA Head of Music Service are using their common sense to provide instruments and yet others are sticking to the absolute letter.

My own Music Service refuses to discriminate against any school age child and includes Independent school and Home Schooled kids in this. He will facilitate the purchase of most instruments for all school age kids regardless of whether they are taught in school or are a member of a school ensemble. He does make sure they pick the instrument up from his office or delivers it himself. He also provides a 12 month period to pay for it.

What are other forumites experiencing and do you think its right that only kids in LEA schools, in Ensembles with peri teaching should have access to this facility?

I speak as a mum here:
I am certainly against the rule which says the child must receive tuition at school! The school was going to charge me just as much as my private teacher does (and he comes to our house to teach) so I don't see why we should be excluded from the scheme...it's not like we are paying expensive fees on tuition and the extra money we would have saved from my son having lessons at school could have been used towards the instrument! And also: there is no way my son would be seen carrying a violin to school (does not look 'cool' etc) so in this way he is still learning the instrument he likes without having fear to be 'bullied' for it.

[serendipity]

As far as I can remember, you don't have to be taught an instrument at school, but the purchase has to support a school-based music course, so for example a GCSE music student would qualify even if their instrumental lessons were outside school. That seems fair to me.

I personally agree that it's only state schools and not independent schools that are included. Home-educated children are an interesting group, although it would obviously be harder to monitor their appropriate use of the instrument.

Neither of the two schools I have bought instruments from using the VAT-free scheme have handed the instrument over in a teaching room, in each case it was the school office/reception area.

[Rosemary7391]

When bought my clarinet, it was most definitely handed over in a teching room - I was on work experience there, and someone walked in with it and gave it to my teacher, who promptly gave it to me to open! We were both very excited, not so good that it was the middle of a lesson though...

I don't see why independent school/home educated kids shouldn't have the instrument VAT free - after all, they pay thier taxes same as anyone else. Anything that makes it easier for kds to learn instruments has got to be a bonus.

[sarah-flute]

What is an independent school defined as? Does it include schools that are "grant maintained"?

I think it's a shame if children are discriminated against by what school they go to or who their teachers are. After all, these days it's often not actually cheaper to have lessons in school (whereas once upon a time you could maybe have argued that those having private lessons could afford to pay more for instruments) and some children at paying schools will be there on scholarships and also therefore not magically come from homes where a couple of thousand on a new flute is not a problem.

[jennthesaxplayer]

When my parent's brought me my first alto saxophone when I was 7, it was VAT free. It was through the primary school itself. 10% was knocked-off from the price also. When I brought my tenor saxophone when I was 16, it was from my local music shop, and was VAT free and also 10% off of it. When I brought my Soprano at 18 it was just 10% off! I think most local music shops (if you will be spending enough money on an instrument, and are under 16) will knock-off the VAT.

[sbhoa]

I personally agree that it's only state schools and not independent schools that are included. Home-educated children are an interesting group, although it would obviously be harder to monitor their appropriate use of the instrument.

How many people buy an instrument to use inappropriately?

What is an independent school defined as? Does it include schools that are "grant maintained"?

I take it to mean fee paying.

[sarah-flute]

I personally agree that it's only state schools and not independent schools that are included.

Why?

What about children from poor families who have won scholarships to such schools?

Just been doing a bit of googling, and there does seem to be a difference between "grant maintained" and "LEA maintained".

Now I don't know whether my local secondary is grant maintained, still, but it certainly was when I was there.

According to the regs:

"The student must be in full time education at an LEA School."

By this reckoning, my local school would be exempt, despite the fact that it's an average secondary with a great many not-well-off families there...

[Ayshah]

I personally agree that it's only state schools and not independent schools that are included.

Why?

What about children from poor families who have won scholarships to such schools?

You are quite right. There are a fair number of children who attend independent (fee paying) schools for a variety of reasons. In this country (UK) the education continues to be a lottery despite years of legislation and tons of paper work to endeavour a equal democratic provison. Parents have to think very carefully before opting out of the State System.

The child may have lost a parent and have to go to boarding schools with perhaps a Charity supporting them there. Some have special needs. Some have indeed won scholarships, often these cover only part school fees and no extras. Not all children in Private/Independent schools come from wealthy backgrounds. Many are from fairly modest incomes whose families struggle to pay the fees. They do not have holidays nor do they change their cars every year. Often these children have absolutely no extras at school beause the money isnt there. They live quite carefully having made the decision to invest the family income in educating their child privately.

For example, I know of one single parent who had three jobs to fund her child through an Independent school. The boy had been excluded permanently from several state schools and private school was her only redress other than the 8 hours per week home tutition offered by the LEA. Why should he be discriminated from having a VAT free instrument?

Why indeed should any child be denied a VAT free instrument just because of the type of school they attend.

For me its about not discriminating against the child. Trivia like not having a lesson in school or not being part of an ensemble is just that - Trivia!

[Ayshah]

Sorry This came up twice

[sarah-flute]

Why indeed should any child be denied a VAT free instrument just because of the type of school they attend.

For me its about not discriminating against the child. Trivia like not having a lesson in school or not being part of an ensemble is just that - Trivia!

I agree 100%!

[ben_walker446]

What do people think about the peripatetic teachers having a list of instrument models that you can get without VAT. With the best flute model being the Yamaha 311? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/glare.gif)