Post Grade 9 Pupil Options

[Amy James]

Hi. I have a mature pupil which has just passed her Grade 8 piano exam with a mark of 118. She then quit her piano lessons and went for an audition at the Royal Welsh College of Music, but totally blew it - she said the auditioners were not at all impressed with her standard of playing. She then asked to carry on lessons, but I'm reluctant to take on any pupils after grade 8, so can anyone suggest any places or tutors whom she could study with? She needs to mainly focus on her technique, but her general standard of playing should be raised before she tries again - she's hoping to re-audition next year. She lives in Maesteg, but is willing to travel as far as Cardiff or Swansea either way, although she holds down a full-time job, so is only available certain evenings or weekends, im not sure which ones. Any suggestions? Thanks

[bevpiano]

Is it possible to have private lessons at the Welsh College - some music colleges do this, so it's worth enquiring. Also, try consulting the EPTA & ISM lists of teachers for teachers in the area who teach up to diploma standard or beyond.

The standard of entry for any music college is very high now, well above a grade 8 pass (or even a distinction), so your student may well need more than a year to reach the required level, especially as she's working full time. It might be a good idea to have a consultation lesson with a teacher at the college, to establish what she needs to do to gain entry.

[oboist]

Is it possible to have private lessons at the Welsh College - some music colleges do this, so it's worth enquiring. Also, try consulting the EPTA & ISM lists of teachers for teachers in the area who teach up to diploma standard or beyond.

The standard of entry for any music college is very high now, well above a grade 8 pass (or even a distinction), so your student may well need more than a year to reach the required level, especially as she's working full time. It might be a good idea to have a consultation lesson with a teacher at the college, to establish what she needs to do to gain entry.

I'd agree totally with this. I have a friend whose son has a DipABRSM (with Distinction) at aged 14 and has been told he's nicely on track to be ready for music college at 18! Grade 8 is no longer good enough for most folk to get into music college.

A consultation lesson would be well worth the money to get a focus on just how far away she is from what's needed.

[Violinia]

Is it harder to get into music college than it used to be?

If so, can this be a good thing?

Violinia

[bevpiano]

I think it is harder to get into music college now, certainly on popular instruments, & it's probably at least partly due to the large number of foreign students. Whenever I go to an event at a music college, British students seem to be quite rare. Doesn't Clara Taylor say something about this in These Music Exams - grade 8 distinction is no longer enough, partly because of increased internationalism.

Whether it's a good thing is debatable, but I suppose it can help students to be more realistic about their chances of becoming professional performers.

[pizzicato]

Hello

I can recommend two piano teachers who specialize in sound technique and preparing for concerts/colleges etc. They both live in South Wales. If you would like the information please PM me for details.

[Knew Bee]

Possibly about to open a can of worms here, but if Grade 8 it not what it perhaps once was, should there be a Grade 9/10 etc?

Or should the grades be more difficult to obtain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

[sbhoa]

Possibly about to open a can of worms here, but if Grade 8 it not what it perhaps once was, should there be a Grade 9/10 etc?

Or should the grades be more difficult to obtain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

I don't think it's the grade that has changed, just that there are more people coming through with more advanced playing skills.

[imlovinit]

Interesting articles and videos in today's New York Times (free to view online after you register) about the Chinese representing the hope for, otherwise consistently in decline, Classical Music in the world.

Apparently, there are 30 Million active Piano students alone (and 10 Million Violin students) in China. Parents are willing to sacrifice their own lives (think of Lang Lang) for the education of their children.
They are sending 14 year olds to Julliard for further education who could play circles around your highest ABRSM diploma holder....and increasingly most American, English, etc. children don't stand a chance of approaching the technical ability of their Chinese counterparts.

Increasingly in the West, the Players are from the East (with Julliard video)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/arts/music/04clas.html

The Classical Revolution: Classical Music looks to China with Hope (with audio slide show)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/arts/music/03class1.html

It would seem that Grade 8 with distinction demonstrates that you might merely have qualified yourself to potentially follow an intensive years long course of study to get your technique up to a level where you might be considered for Conservatory.

So, there seems to be room for additional grade or for a tightening of the standards
Yet, it would seem that ABRSM may be conversely "dumbing the exams down".
Taking Grade 7 Piano Practical Exam, for example, the pieces in the 2007-2008 syllabus are mostly easier than those in the 2005-2006 syllabus....

[sbhoa]

So, there seems to be room for additional grade or for a tightening of the standards
Yet, it would seem that ABRSM may be conversely "dumbing the exams down".
Taking Grade 7 Piano Practical Exam, for example, the pieces in the 2007-2008 syllabus are mostly easier than those in the 2005-2006 syllabus....

Surely difficulty is to some extent a personal thing?
The things you say are more difficult I might not have too much trouble with.

[imlovinit]

So, there seems to be room for additional grade or for a tightening of the standards
Yet, it would seem that ABRSM may be conversely "dumbing the exams down".
Taking Grade 7 Piano Practical Exam, for example, the pieces in the 2007-2008 syllabus are mostly easier than those in the 2005-2006 syllabus....

Surely difficulty is to some extent a personal thing?
The things you say are more difficult I might not have too much trouble with.

Well, considering my playing it is almost certain that what I find difficult you probably don't!

Back on topic though, variance in personal strengths is why each grade has a wide variety of different pieces with their own particular challenges.

The point is that it would seem that the level of the ABRSM grades is not getting more difficult, but may rather be getting easier instead. If not in absolute terms of the required standard of playing, the strictness of marking or the choice of less challenging repertoire, at least in relative terms of having a standard which is not keeping up with the "rising water level" of the universe of student players.

One example I see indicating an absolute easing is Grade 7 Piano where the Beethoven piece is objectively more difficult in the previous syllabus. The Schumann piece in the previous syllabus is a diploma piece where the current one is a short standard (although with its own musical challenges), etc.

If difficulty is completely subjective and individual-specific, then having Graded Exams doesn't make a great deal of sense, does it?

[AntonPiano]

Hi. I have a mature pupil which has just passed her Grade 8 piano exam with a mark of 118. She then quit her piano lessons and went for an audition at the Royal Welsh College of Music, but totally blew it - she said the auditioners were not at all impressed with her standard of playing. She then asked to carry on lessons, but I'm reluctant to take on any pupils after grade 8, so can anyone suggest any places or tutors whom she could study with? She needs to mainly focus on her technique, but her general standard of playing should be raised before she tries again - she's hoping to re-audition next year. She lives in Maesteg, but is willing to travel as far as Cardiff or Swansea either way, although she holds down a full-time job, so is only available certain evenings or weekends, im not sure which ones. Any suggestions? Thanks

i know of an excellent teacher in neath, which isnt far from maesteg as i live 2 minutes away fromt there, Howell Price.

excellent.
x

[Robodoc]

Possibly about to open a can of worms here, but if Grade 8 it not what it perhaps once was, should there be a Grade 9/10 etc?

Or should the grades be more difficult to obtain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

I don't think it's the grade that has changed, just that there are more people coming through with more advanced playing skills.

I've just returned to playing classical piano after a 25 year gap (35 or more since my last lesson). Before the gap I learned a grade 8 list. The repertoire then called for whole sonatas (by Beethoven, Mozart etc.) to be learned. Now it just calls for single, usually first, movements. Even if the standard required has changed it would seem on the face of it that it must be easier to learn a more limited repertoire. Or must it? Perhaps they have picked slightly more difficult pieces, though glancing through the lists it doesn't seem so. I suppose also that with only picking one movement of each sonata it makes it slightly easier for the examiner, particularly where the playing is below the standard you would look for.

As for the standard changing to compensate - is there any evidence of this? It's certainly possible in any subject. Anatomy at medical school had a pass mark of 50%. At part 1 FRCS (now an obsolete examination) it was the same subject exactly, but the pass mark was 75%. Returning to piano music, Shostakovich Prelude and Fugue No. 7 is currently listed for both Grade 8 and LRSM: I cannot imagine that the standard of performance expected is the same for both.

Furthermore, although grade 8 candidates may find that the scales and arpeggios at lower grades are assumed, they are not tested for and I'm sure that grade 8 (for piano) used to include all keys, whereas now it is only 8.

Conclusion - the grade is easier to learn than it was 25 years ago: Is it tested to a higher standard to compensate, or not?