Singing lessons for children Options

[Sunrise]

A lot of people have completely wrong ideas of what a singing lesson is like (not saying they are the same with every teacher anyway). They sort of expect to walk in and sing their favourite songs, it's more like looking for the opportunity to sing (or even be accompanied) than anything else. That's of course legitimate, but not every teacher wants to teach like that, and above all: The student will not learn an awful lot. I can always tell when people had lessons before whether they were taught by what I call a song teacher, or a singing teacher, and that's really a difference. Everyone with good musical understanding can be a song teacher, but not everyone has the skills to be a singing teacher.

I definately agree with this. My daughter had a year of "singing lessons" which she won as a bursary in a local festival. These were really song lessons, she learned no technique apart from not to breathe in the middle of a phrase and to warm up before she started. She learned more with our current teacher in just one or two lessons than she did with the previous teacher in a year.

[Halka]

My daughter had a year of "singing lessons" which she won as a bursary in a local festival. These were really song lessons, she learned no technique apart from not to breathe in the middle of a phrase and to warm up before she started.

This sounds like my daughter's previous teacher - except that she didn't even do the warm up bit... Really hoping things will improve with the new teacher in September. Since the new teacher doesn't play piano I'm hopeful there'll be more focus on the actual singing technique.

On the other hand, it is always impressed upon us (non-singing parents) that children should not be doing too much technique-wise too soon - so it's hard for us to know when the teacher is getting it right or wrong in terms of the song teaching/singing teaching thing.

Seer Green, Dugazon and co., I hear what you are saying, and take your point. Most of the instrumental teachers on here would throw up their hands in horror at the thought of someone teaching themself an instrument, because of the bad habits that would inevitably be picked up en route. This lad will continue to sing regardless - but this isn't a worry?

[Susie]

Having re-read the original post, though, I think that Dulcet seems to know what she's looking for, and says that the teacher knows her stuff. When I replied earlier I was writing on that basis.

Maybe we've been blessed with singing teachers, but daughter has never had one who has just taught "songs", but always an appropriate amount of technique for her age.

[Seer_Green]

Seer Green, Dugazon and co., I hear what you are saying, and take your point. Most of the instrumental teachers on here would throw up their hands in horror at the thought of someone teaching themself an instrument, because of the bad habits that would inevitably be picked up en route. This lad will continue to sing regardless - but this isn't a worry?

I find this very difficult because I feel that it's somehow putting a kind of moral obligation onto teachers which says if you don't teach this pupil, they might carry on singing and damage their voice. I think that's a responsibility too far. My concern is that the pupils I take on want to learn to sing. If someone wants to carry on singing but not have lessons, I don't feel a moral obligation towards them to ensure they don't learn bad habits.

[Halka]

Seer Green, Dugazon and co., I hear what you are saying, and take your point. Most of the instrumental teachers on here would throw up their hands in horror at the thought of someone teaching themself an instrument, because of the bad habits that would inevitably be picked up en route. This lad will continue to sing regardless - but this isn't a worry?

I find this very difficult because I feel that it's somehow putting a kind of moral obligation onto teachers which says if you don't teach this pupil, they might carry on singing and damage their voice.

It was certainly not my intention at all to put anyone on the spot. I suppose reading back through my post it could be interpreted as you have done. However, you forget that I approach this from a position of almost complete ignorance. I merely seek to establish the respects in which singing (and its teaching) can be regarded as analogous to other instruments, and those in which it cannot. All I was asking was why singing is a special case as regards continuing to use ones instrument untutored.

[sbhoa]

Seer Green, Dugazon and co., I hear what you are saying, and take your point. Most of the instrumental teachers on here would throw up their hands in horror at the thought of someone teaching themself an instrument, because of the bad habits that would inevitably be picked up en route. This lad will continue to sing regardless - but this isn't a worry?

I find this very difficult because I feel that it's somehow putting a kind of moral obligation onto teachers which says if you don't teach this pupil, they might carry on singing and damage their voice.

It was certainly not my intention at all to put anyone on the spot. I suppose reading back through my post it could be interpreted as you have done. However, you forget that I approach this from a position of almost complete ignorance. I merely seek to establish the respects in which singing (and its teaching) can be regarded as analogous to other instruments, and those in which it cannot. All I was asking was why singing is a special case as regards continuing to use ones instrument untutored.

I may be wrong here but isn't singing on a very basic level a natural thing like talking?
Is it when you start trying to sing in anything other than your 'natural' voice that there are potential problems.
Yes, you do get 'warnings' about bad habits but people can still get pleasure form learning an instrument without a teacher and some are happy just doing this regardless of potential bad habits. Some people are quite happy with what they play and are never going to be interested enough to want to have what's accepted as good technique.

[Seer_Green]

I can't entirely see why the question of whether or not people should learn on their own has arisen - my basic question is still do they want to learn to sing.

[Halka]

I can't entirely see why the question of whether or not people should learn on their own has arisen - my basic question is still do they want to learn to sing.

Sorry if I have taken things off topic. I was really using the term "learn" or "teach yourself" rather loosely, but I had in mind that Dulcet's son is already singing rather a lot, I think, and so, in a sense, is "teaching" himself. In particular, I had in mind her comment:

"well he DOES sing... so it would be a Good Thing if he did it right ;-)"

to which, of course, you already replied.

I think I will never understand singing - and especially singing teachers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) - so I will bow out now as the discussion is becoming circular.

[Seer_Green]

I don't think singing teachers are a different breed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

It's so difficult to explain though!

Because your voice is part of 'you', you use it. You might sing around the house, to the radio, in choirs or at church. Making the transition between doing those 'informal' things to having lessons, which is obviously more 'formal' requires careful thought.

To a certain extent, the same model doesn't apply to other instruments; you don't usually buy a trumpet and then play it around the house informally - if you do play, it's likely to be because you are teaching yourself to play - the trumpet isn't part of 'you'. How many people do you know who play their trumpet along to the radio, or in the shower (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Therefore, the transition to having lessons is perhaps more obvious.

But in general, I'd still say that the most important thing is that if someone is going to have lessons, regardless of the instrument, they need to want to do it. Singing teachers are probably more aware of this because we see the divide that exists between the everyday kind of singing (the thing which most people have been doing in one way or another since they were born), and singing lessons.

[Dulcet]

He enjoyed his first lesson... although surprised that it was 40 minutes warming up and 15 minutes rehearsing the piece ;-) But there was a very clear step up from just one lesson.

Long-term, we'll see... he'll be getting coaching for this particular solo for the next few weeks and we'll make a decision after that.

To clarify, he's been singing in the church choir for 4 years now and the youngsters do get pretty good group training in their own sessions - the Voice for Life programme is followed closely, warmups and vocal exercises are taken very seriously and the D of M and the Young Choir director work hard to check that there are no horrors occurring. (whilst not professional singers, they both have lessons from very good teachers).

His voice is naturally quite good, but there's definitely more there, if you see what I mean, and he is very much like me in that he holds a LOT of tension. One-on-one tuition is definitely the best way to address that issue. Does he want to improve? Is he prepared to work? Yes and sort of... at the moment, because he saw how much he could achieve with all that focus, he's very motivated, so I do feel that by capitalising on that now there'll be more chance of him continuing to want to improve.

I suppose I was really asking what to avoid! he is small for his age so there is a fair chance of another 3 years of trebledom...

[Dulcet]

It is an important question.
I like singing and was in a local choir for about 25 years but didn't get on with singing lessons.

I always have sung, but have enjoyed it SO MUCH MORE since starting lessons last autumn!
Takes all sorts ;-)

[Maria]

Glad he enjoyed it Dulcet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[AnnC]

It is an important question.
I like singing and was in a local choir for about 25 years but didn't get on with singing lessons.

I always have sung, but have enjoyed it SO MUCH MORE since starting lessons last autumn!
Takes all sorts ;-)

Maybe it was the teachers concerned who prompted both these results!

Dulcet - I'm glad your son enjoyed his first lesson. I doubt it was 40 minutes warming up - I would have thought it was the teacher exploring the voice, seeing and hearing what he does naturally, making the odd correction here and there, introducing some technique and generally getting him to relax in front of her, etc. My initial lessons cover far more exercises than subsequent ones for those reasons.
Well done to him for coping with an hour long lesson. I usually only have my more advanced students for that length of time. I hope he continues to have fun with his singing.

[Cyrilla]

It is an important question.
I like singing and was in a local choir for about 25 years but didn't get on with singing lessons.

I always have sung, but have enjoyed it SO MUCH MORE since starting lessons last autumn!
Takes all sorts ;-)

FWIW, I adore singing and do it every day of my life - but I've had probably half a dozen singing lessons in total and I didn't enjoy the experience AT ALL. At one point I had a couple of lessons from the Hungarian tutor who was also teaching my mother (on a summer school). I remember the time she got so frustrated with me that she exclaimed, 'Why can't you be more like your mother?' (who was 72 at the time).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[soccermom]

Dulcet - glad your son enjoyed his lesson.

My daughters started singing lessons recently. Both had sung regularly in a children's choir, and less regularly at church, but last September they both had to leave the choir they had sung in since the age of 5 because of a change to the time of their piano lessons.

The original plan was that the younger one (11) would have 3 x 20 minute lessons in the run up to last year's church carol service in which she was due to sing the solo first verse of "Once in Royal". I knew she could sing it in tune, but her voice was very breathy and it sounded a bit feeble. As for your son, the very first lesson made a huge difference, as did the other two. That gave her a lot of confidence. The solo went well and she was also complimented on her singing when she auditioned for a music scholarship in January. She enjoyed the whole experience so much that we agreed she would carry on after Christmas and extend the lesson to a regular 30 minute slot.

The older one (14 now, but 13 at the time) noticed how much the younger one had improved, and in the new year we agreed that she would have lessons for a six month period as part of the skill element of her Duke of Edinburgh award. She made slower progress than the younger one, as she had a very awkward few notes (A-C above middle C) that she could hardly sing at all. She is also much more self-conscious and doesn't like performing at the best of times. However, she started to make huge amounts of progress in the Summer. She took grade 2 in July. Her piano teacher (who accompanied her) came out of the exam amazed at how well she had sung and we were delighted with the results (139 for her and 131 for the younger one who also took grade 2). Needless to say, I'm not going to be allowed to get away with the planned 6 months of lessons as she wants to carry on with them.

In summary, I'd say both have benefited enormously from their singing lessons. Both enjoy them and both are keen to continue with them. The teacher is great and it probably helped that they knew her already. Both are keen to sing at school this year which I am very pleased about now that they have no other regular choir (the older one had given up choir after year 7 but will now join again and might even be brave enough to audition for the year 10/11 chamber choir). I must say it was also nice to have the least stressful exams they have ever had (for me as well as them)! In particular, not having any scales to practise was a blessed relief - especially for the younger one who took grade 5 piano on the same day and therefore had more than enough scales to learn for that!