Singing lessons for children Options

[Dulcet]

I'd be interested to hear some views on this. DA1 (nearly 12) is a chorister with (IMO) a lot of potential. He's been asked to do a solo with a local choir run by a singing teacher. She is working with him to get him up to scratch on this solo, and has said he could really do with regular lessons. I don't have a problem with this at all, I trust this teacher and she certainly knows her stuff (and maybe in this case more to the point has the knack of dealing with DS!). However, the other half is sceptical about lessons for the long term saying what would our son get out of it?

All opinions happily received - I am not really sure myself why I think that it would be such a good idea, but I think it's because I see a potential that isn't being reached that could be reached with a bit of help.

[Susie]

Singing lessons for your son sound a good idea, and at the age of 12, probably a good thing to start now, although there will be a gap (probably) while his voice changes. But singing in general will help with all other music making.

Our daughter began singing lessons at about that age, intending to keep it as a hobby "and not do any exams or anything". However, she's now a choral scholar at Cambridge, and the other instruments have been left to one side a bit, so I'm a firm believer in letting some-one have a go, and just seeing what comes out of it. And in your case, particularly as singing teacher has the knack of dealing with your son!! (I'm sure he's an angel really!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[Seer_Green]

I suppose the basic question is does he want to learn to sing? If yes, then he'll get something out of lessons.

[jod]

Seer_Green makes the best point. Does he want to?

Having established he does, do bear in mind that his voice could go through transition at any point from now to sixteen. Current wisdom is to sing through transition. You then need to find a singing teacher who understand the various stages of transition and how to set music and technical exercises to fit the voice at each range.

The singing teacher's guru on this subject is a vocal practioner called John Cooksey, based in the USA. If anyone does not mention Cooksey's stages of male vocal transition then run a mile as this has become the standard work on the subject. They may not mention them, but if they go blank you really have found a bad egg who does not know what they are doing.

Progress may be slow until the voice settles then take of at an exponential rate at that stage. The Cooksey stages are as relevant for Contemporary Singers as they are for Classical Training of any flavour. This describes the physiological and approximate range changes that occur during male voice transition and nothing in relation to how technique hangs on top.

You may also want to look at choral programmes such as the National Youth Choir who have excellent Singing Staff working with them.

Girls voices also go through similar transitional phases but they are not as dramatic as with young men. I am in the process of finding out quite how dramatic they are with one particular young man at present as MatthewD's voice is nearing the end of Transition having enterred it relatively early.

[Susie]

You may also want to look at choral programmes such as the National Youth Choir who have excellent Singing Staff working with them.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Daughter found a very good singing teacher from her National Youth Choir days.

[Dulcet]

I suppose the basic question is does he want to learn to sing? If yes, then he'll get something out of lessons.

well he DOES sing... so it would be a Good Thing if he did it right ;-)

[Seer_Green]

I suppose the basic question is does he want to learn to sing? If yes, then he'll get something out of lessons.

well he DOES sing... so it would be a Good Thing if he did it right ;-)

Yes, but I still say that if the lessons are to be successful/productive, he needs to want to do them - to me, there's a difference between singing and having singing lessons.

So far you've said that he sings at the moment, and you've said that it would be a good thing if he did that right - fine - but, does he want to have singing lessons? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do think this is a pretty important question.

[sbhoa]

I suppose the basic question is does he want to learn to sing? If yes, then he'll get something out of lessons.

well he DOES sing... so it would be a Good Thing if he did it right ;-)

Yes, but I still say that if the lessons are to be successful/productive, he needs to want to do them - to me, there's a difference between singing and having singing lessons.

So far you've said that he sings at the moment, and you've said that it would be a good thing if he did that right - fine - but, does he want to have singing lessons? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do think this is a pretty important question.

It is an important question.
I like singing and was in a local choir for about 25 years but didn't get on with singing lessons.

[Maria]

I agree with Seer Green. What's his opinion on having lessons?

[dotted quaver]

I think it depends on the child. If the child wants to learn to sing properly then lessons would be worthwhile but if not then it would be a waste of time and money. How many threads have been started by frustrated teachers who are trying to teach students who are having lessons because mummy/granny/uncle Bob want them to and the child has no interest?

[Halka]

How can he know how he feels about lessons until he has one or two? He clearly likes to sing. So, I'd give it a shot. ( My daughter had a year off lessons at 14 (after 6 years!) and is really excited about starting again in September - but I am otherwise completely unqualified to comment!).

[Seer_Green]

How can he know how he feels about lessons until he has one or two?

I kind of agree with that, but I still don't think it's the same as wanting to do them in the first place (or even wanting to try them). If he wants to try a few, then fine - lots of teachers will offer consultation lessons which ought to give a taster of what a lesson might be like.

I still think that there has to be a desire to learn. Many years experience doing this has taught me that the difference between enjoying singing and having singing lessons is greater than one might expect. As sbhoa says, just because one enjoys singing, it doesn't mean one will enjoy singing lessons - I know that sounds ridiculous, but it really is important for singers - after all, singing is part of 'you'.

[Dugazon]

As sbhoa says, just because one enjoys singing, it doesn't me one will enjoy singing lessons - I know that sounds ridiculous, but it really is important for singers - after all, singing is part of 'you'.

I absolutely agree.

A lot of people have completely wrong ideas of what a singing lesson is like (not saying they are the same with every teacher anyway). They sort of expect to walk in and sing their favourite songs, it's more like looking for the opportunity to sing (or even be accompanied) than anything else. That's of course legitimate, but not every teacher wants to teach like that, and above all: The student will not learn an awful lot. I can always tell when people had lessons before whether they were taught by what I call a song teacher, or a singing teacher, and that's really a difference. Everyone with good musical understanding can be a song teacher, but not everyone has the skills to be a singing teacher.

Having said that: If the desire to sing is there, it certainly is one of the prerequisites (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . Just be prepared that learning singing technique can be pretty much the same as learning any other instrument: At times technical and frustrating. A lot of people who "just want to sing" are not prepared to start something from scratch they already do on a daily basis. And that's the big difference to learning another instrument (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Especially with kids, I would say: If they ASK for singing lessons, give it a shot. Also try to find a teacher who is good in dealing with that particular age group.

[Seer_Green]

Totally agree with Dugazon.

I really don't want anyone to think that us singing teachers are trying to put people off or be unhelpful (as we were accused of on another thread not so long ago). It's just that experience tells us that people often view singing lessons differently to other lessons, and this can often lead to confusion and people not getting what they hoped. It's probably why we are so careful to make sure that prospective pupils/parents fully understand this.

So, we're not trying to be discouraging, but we probably approach this sort of question in the same way we would if a prospective pupil/parent enquired (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jod]

Totally agree with Dugazon.

I really don't want anyone to think that us singing teachers are trying to put people off or be unhelpful (as we were accused of on another thread not so long ago). It's just that experience tells us that people often view singing lessons differently to other lessons, and this can often lead to confusion and people not getting what they hoped. It's probably why we are so careful to make sure that prospective pupils/parents fully understand this.

So, we're not trying to be discouraging, but we probably approach this sort of question in the same way we would if a prospective pupil/parent enquired (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I completely agree! (gosh that's novel!) It is not that I want to talk myself out of a job when dealing with this age range, but more a case that I'd like the young people, especially if they are male, to have a realistic expectation of what is going to happen over the next few years, and just how frustrating the one step forward three backwards can be. The reward, however is that once things settle down is it is like a rocket taking off!