The Viola Thread, Everybody welcome :-D Options

[inigo]

Me too, but wondering what to do about my viola. I'm afraid I am considering selling it as I play it so little at present. I love the sound, enjoy playing when I have time, and have greatly improved with reading the C clef, but there are only so many hours in the day and I am so busy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . I started viola as a way of becoming a more flexible string player, but it doesn't seem to be happening the way I planned!

[Laura Liz]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

[Tenor Viol]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

I'm a mere viol player (ok full Italian name of instrument is viola da gamba, which is an Italianisation of "vihuela") which is a different family of instruments. Not wishing to tread on toes, but a viola is a larger member of the violin family, so there are similarities, but I am sure it's larger size will introduce technique differences.

The main point is that music for it is written in the alto clef (C3 clef), not the treble clef (G2) used by the violin.

The tenor viol also uses the alto clef, so I feel a certain affinity for viola players!

[muzikalbadger]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

That's ok Laura Liz - easy mistake to make as it looks kinda like a big violin!
It uses a different clef - called the alto clef, so a lot of the problem is learning to read that as fluently as I can read treble and bass!
Also because its bigger it is lower too - it has an A, D and G like violin, but also has a low C instead of a high E. This requires slightly different technique to bring the most out of the instrument.

It is similar though, and thats why I jumped in at grade 4 (although I probably should have just gone for 5...)
as many of the basic techniques can be transferred. Hope that clears it up a bit for you, and good luck with you violin lessons!

Edit - I see Tenor Viol has also posted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tenor Viol]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

That's ok Laura Liz - easy mistake to make as it looks kinda like a big violin!
It uses a different clef - called the alto clef, so a lot of the problem is learning to read that as fluently as I can read treble and bass!
Also because its bigger it is lower too - it has an A, D and G like violin, but also has a low C instead of a high E. This requires slightly different technique to bring the most out of the instrument.

It is similar though, and thats why I jumped in at grade 4 (although I probably should have just gone for 5...)
as many of the basic techniques can be transferred. Hope that clears it up a bit for you, and good luck with you violin lessons!

Edit - I see Tenor Viol has also posted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif) Hi

Tuning of tenor viol, just for fun from top to bottom is (starting on the G above middle C and going down)

G D A F C G - the C being the same as the C on the viola and so string 6 is the G at the bottom of the bass clef. So generally 4ths rather than 5ths, with a 3rd thrown in to confuse you. Tuning is the same as a Renaissance 6 course lute....

Fingering for a scale of C starting on the C string becomes o? 1(D) 3(E) o(F) 1(G) o(A) 1(B) 2?

EDIT: OK that's just annoying. Type most non-alpha characters such as an apostrophe and you get a "?" instead. Type bracket C bracket adn you get ©

[muzikalbadger]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

That's ok Laura Liz - easy mistake to make as it looks kinda like a big violin!
It uses a different clef - called the alto clef, so a lot of the problem is learning to read that as fluently as I can read treble and bass!
Also because its bigger it is lower too - it has an A, D and G like violin, but also has a low C instead of a high E. This requires slightly different technique to bring the most out of the instrument.

It is similar though, and thats why I jumped in at grade 4 (although I probably should have just gone for 5...)
as many of the basic techniques can be transferred. Hope that clears it up a bit for you, and good luck with you violin lessons!

Edit - I see Tenor Viol has also posted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif) Hi

Tuning of tenor viol, just for fun from top to bottom is (starting on the G above middle C and going down)

G D A F C G - the C being the same as the C on the viola and so string 6 is the G at the bottom of the bass clef. So generally 4ths rather than 5ths, with a 3rd thrown in to confuse you. Tuning is the same as a Renaissance 6 course lute....

Fingering for a scale of C starting on the C string becomes o? 1(D) 3(E) o(F) 1(G) o(A) 1(B) 2?

That is really weird!!! In a good way!! I find Viols fascinating!! Can't believe it goes that low! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tenor Viol]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/woot.gif) I LOVE this thread lottie!!! I got given my viola in June 2010, and am around grade 5 ish on it, NOT because I am a genius (i wish!!! lol) but because I teach violin, and when I was at school learning violin my teacher was actually a violist who gave me extra lessons on a viola for a year and i fell in love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) sadly uni etc and lack of funds scuppered my plans of actually learning it properly, so I am so pleased I finally have the chance to try teaching myself a bit... hoping to take grade 5 or 6 on it next year!

I soooo want to hear you play in Glasgow lottie!!! looking forward to it!!

Any tips and hints on how to play better are always appreciated!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's to VIOLAS!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hurrah.gif)

Do you have different gradings for violin and viola? I thought that it was just a large violin. It would just be the same to play and examine. Forgive me - I've only had 3 violin lessons as an adult learner!

That's ok Laura Liz - easy mistake to make as it looks kinda like a big violin!
It uses a different clef - called the alto clef, so a lot of the problem is learning to read that as fluently as I can read treble and bass!
Also because its bigger it is lower too - it has an A, D and G like violin, but also has a low C instead of a high E. This requires slightly different technique to bring the most out of the instrument.

It is similar though, and thats why I jumped in at grade 4 (although I probably should have just gone for 5...)
as many of the basic techniques can be transferred. Hope that clears it up a bit for you, and good luck with you violin lessons!

Edit - I see Tenor Viol has also posted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif) Hi

Tuning of tenor viol, just for fun from top to bottom is (starting on the G above middle C and going down)

G D A F C G - the C being the same as the C on the viola and so string 6 is the G at the bottom of the bass clef. So generally 4ths rather than 5ths, with a 3rd thrown in to confuse you. Tuning is the same as a Renaissance 6 course lute....

Fingering for a scale of C starting on the C string becomes o? 1(D) 3(E) o(F) 1(G) o(A) 1(B) 2?

That is really weird!!! In a good way!! I find Viols fascinating!! Can't believe it goes that low! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bottom string of a standard 6 string bass is the D below the bass clef (so a tone above a cello). BUT you get 7 string basses (especially French) which add the A below that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

A violone is the doublebass of the family and is of course an octave below that (yes, it has 6 strings too - I think same tuning as tenor viol, but octave lower)

[Laura Liz]

Thanks. I presently know very little about music and clefs. I am hoping that starting out in my late 20s I can get somewhere (a decent tune). May be a couple of grades (if I am lucky a few more). I am really enjoying learning the violin. Thanks for the information though. It's nice to pick up snippets of knowledge.

[kenm]

The tenor viol also uses the alto clef, so I feel a certain affinity for viola players!

Did Renaissance composers use multiple clefs for viol parts? 16th C. printers didn't like leger lines. I have been caught out playing from a facsimile that changed clef from one stave to the next (alto to tenor, IIRC), but no instrument was specified on the part.

[Tenor Viol]

The tenor viol also uses the alto clef, so I feel a certain affinity for viola players!

Did Renaissance composers use multiple clefs for viol parts? 16th C. printers didn't like leger lines. I have been caught out playing from a facsimile that changed clef from one stave to the next (alto to tenor, IIRC), but no instrument was specified on the part.

Yes, and more than we use today.

If you look at something like "The Second Booke of Songs and Ayres of 2, 4, and 5 parts with Tablature for the Lute or Orpherian with the Violl de Gamba" AKA "Second book of Songs" by John Dowland, this is printed as a "table book". You open it flat on a small square table and the players and singers sit around the table and the parts are printed so that they are the right way up for each person. (See here)

Looking at "Fine Knacks for Ladies" the Canto is treble clef (G2), Alto is C2 clef (not C3), Tenore is C3 (alto clef, not C4 tenor clef), and Basso is bass clef (F4).

Fun hey?

[kenm]

Looking at "Fine Knacks for Ladies" the Canto is treble clef (G2), Alto is C2 clef (not C3), Tenore is C3 (alto clef, not C4 tenor clef), and Basso is bass clef (F4).

Yes, I would expect different parts to have different clefs. This was still practice for the trombone section in the early 19th C., when Beethoven and Schumann both expected the section to have one each of alto, tenor and bass trombone, and mostly used corresponding clefs to show which instrument to use. However, what I meant was whether a single tenor viol part might have, e.g. baritone clef (F3 or C5) for a passage in its low register and mezzo-soprano (C2) for a high one. If not, then viol parts might require more leger lines than you get in Renaissance vocal music.

My first attempt at singing from a facsimile part was in a Wilbye madrigal ("Sweet Amarylla"?), which lasts about 4 minutes. Three other beginners and I took about two hours to get from beginning to end without stopping. I was singing the lowest part in baritone clef. I found pitching easier than I expected, but counting rests from just the symbols - mere vertical lines for minim, semibreve, breve and long - was another trick altogether. One of the owners of the part book from which my photocopy was taken had added bar lines where the part was active, but not all of our parts were so supplemented.

[Tenor Viol]

Looking at "Fine Knacks for Ladies" the Canto is treble clef (G2), Alto is C2 clef (not C3), Tenore is C3 (alto clef, not C4 tenor clef), and Basso is bass clef (F4).

Yes, I would expect different parts to have different clefs. This was still practice for the trombone section in the early 19th C., when Beethoven and Schumann both expected the section to have one each of alto, tenor and bass trombone, and mostly used corresponding clefs to show which instrument to use. However, what I meant was whether a single tenor viol part might have, e.g. baritone clef (F3 or C5) for a passage in its low register and mezzo-soprano (C2) for a high one. If not, then viol parts might require more leger lines than you get in Renaissance vocal music.

My first attempt at singing from a facsimile part was in a Wilbye madrigal ("Sweet Amarylla"?), which lasts about 4 minutes. Three other beginners and I took about two hours to get from beginning to end without stopping. I was singing the lowest part in baritone clef. I found pitching easier than I expected, but counting rests from just the symbols - mere vertical lines for minim, semibreve, breve and long - was another trick altogether. One of the owners of the part book from which my photocopy was taken had added bar lines where the part was active, but not all of our parts were so supplemented.

Ah - didn't quite get that. In modern editions I've not come across switching clefs mid-flight for a tenor. The bass however can switch between bass clef and alto. In later Baroque music (e.g. French - Marais etc) you will even see treble clef.

Viols will often play recorder music. Recorders don't use alto clef (as far as I know) and so tenor parts (and basses) will often have to play from octave treble.

I've not looked at enough facsimiles to know if clef switching was done in the originals or not.

I've had a couple of goes at both singing and playing from facsimile - you're right, it's the rests that are a killer (that and the confusion of 'black minim notation! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ).

I've had a go at making a performing edition from facsimile and working out where the bar lines should be is fun! As is trying to work out ligatures....

[piacenza]

Hi,

I'm new to the the viola thread. I used to play violin but have jumped ship to the 'other side' and love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I haven't been playing long, but am hoping to take Grade 3 in the summer session - only if i can get my fingers to behave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I would like a technique book, especially for improving bowing - is Sevcik the best?

Thanks

[lottie]

Hi,

I'm new to the the viola thread. I used to play violin but have jumped ship to the 'other side' and love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I haven't been playing long, but am hoping to take Grade 3 in the summer session - only if i can get my fingers to behave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I would like a technique book, especially for improving bowing - is Sevcik the best?

Thanks

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) hello piacenza

Welcome to the Viola thread!!! Always great to see more violists (and anyone else interested (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

There are lots of opinions on technique and studies etc but I personally like quite tuneful things and I find Sevcik rather dull (others will shake their heads sadly at me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) But I play for fun, although I work to improve my technique all the time, so I like to learn my technical aspects while playing 'music' too.

I have been using the 'Adam Carse' series of studies books. I'm currently on Book 4 but they are really great fun. Once you have mastered them they are great for developing athleticism too by playing them very fast and each one can be played with many combinations of bowing technique.

If you want to order them online I can thoroughly recommend This website - they dispatch everything very quickly and have LOADS of viola music in stock!

[viola-mad]

If you want to order them online I can thoroughly recommend This website - they dispatch everything very quickly and have LOADS of viola music in stock!

Piacenza, I wholeheartedly support Lottie's recommendation above. I would also add that the people who work there are experienced string players themselves, and can often recommend something. They've been very helpful to me in the past when trying to decide whether a piece is an appropriate level of difficulty for me. They have even gladly answered crazy questions like what key/time/tempo is x piece of music!