Questions About Publishers, Yes or No? Options

[staccato]

There are urtexts and then there are urtexts...

Yes, that has become evident! :-)

[anacrusis]

The examiner is expecting to see what you're playing from: if you're memorising, then there is less of a problem anyway, because you can give your examiner the one you learned from. I haven't seen the two editions you're talking about, but you might just be able to talk your way out of giving the examiner something which looks different from what you're playing from (this is now assuming you've got the music up on the desk in the exam) if you can say both are Urtext and know what Urtext means...have a read of the regulations though, you might be on thin ice there. (sorry, I'm too lazy to go and look it up just now).

[staccato]

The examiner is expecting to see what you're playing from: if you're memorising, then there is less of a problem anyway, because you can give your examiner the one you learned from. I haven't seen the two editions you're talking about, but you might just be able to talk your way out of giving the examiner something which looks different from what you're playing from (this is now assuming you've got the music up on the desk in the exam) if you can say both are Urtext and know what Urtext means...have a read of the regulations though, you might be on thin ice there. (sorry, I'm too lazy to go and look it up just now).

Thanks, I'll go read the regulations myself (where do I find them?). I'm puzzled though because surely everybody's interpretation is different in terms of dynamics, pedalling, articulation and so on - I don't really stick to ANY particular edition religiously. For example I might like a particular recording and pick up ideas from those sources too.

[fyrtlemyrtle]

The examiner is expecting to see what you're playing from: if you're memorising, then there is less of a problem anyway, because you can give your examiner the one you learned from. I haven't seen the two editions you're talking about, but you might just be able to talk your way out of giving the examiner something which looks different from what you're playing from (this is now assuming you've got the music up on the desk in the exam) if you can say both are Urtext and know what Urtext means...have a read of the regulations though, you might be on thin ice there. (sorry, I'm too lazy to go and look it up just now).

Thanks, I'll go read the regulations myself (where do I find them?). I'm puzzled though because surely everybody's interpretation is different in terms of dynamics, pedalling, articulation and so on - I don't really stick to ANY particular edition religiously. For example I might like a particular recording and pick up ideas from those sources too.

May I suggest if you are doing a Dip that you familiarise yourself intimately with the syllabus. It is available on the www.abrsm.org website and you can order it in a printed version if you prefer.

[staccato]

[quote name='fyrtlemyrtle' date='Jul 19 2008, 10:04 AM' post='724052']

[/quote]
May I suggest if you are doing a Dip that you familiarise yourself intimately with the syllabus. It is available on the www.abrsm.org website and you can order it in a printed version if you prefer.
[/quote]


Thanks but yes I do have a copy (just haven't read it for a little while) - have just checked. It says that editions quoted are recommendations only; you are free to choose any other editions; use of discretion for matters of phrasing etc. Copies for examiners are *ideally* the same edition (photocopies allowable if contact the publisher) and that you should be prepared to discuss choice of editions in the Viva.

So, that's me pretty much covered then :-)

[fyrtlemyrtle]

So, that's me pretty much covered then :-)

Yes, but can you say in an informed manner why you chose edition X over edition Y?

[staccato]

So, that's me pretty much covered then :-)

Yes, but can you say in an informed manner why you chose edition X over edition Y?

Not yet!! (work in progress...) java script:emoticon(':D',%20'smid_5')

[musicmanNZ]

Of course staccato can

X was available for 23 pounds 50 pence whereas Y was going to cost 26 pounds.

That's informed and reasoned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


sorry my keyboard has $ not pounds!

[fyrtlemyrtle]

Of course staccato can

X was available for 23 pounds 50 pence whereas Y was going to cost 26 pounds.

That's informed and reasoned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In a way, yes but I think they want "informed and reasoned" with regards to the way it affects performance rather than the £ in the pocket...

[Mad Tom]

In a way, yes but I think they want "informed and reasoned" with regards to the way it affects performance rather than the £ in the pocket...

Only on the naive assumption that you play the piece exactly as notated and edited in the edition you chose to buy (or happened to have available).

Any particular edition is just one of the inputs into the final performance

The eventual performance is based on information from many sources - all the other editions that you borrowed from friends or library, or sneaked a look at in the music shop, recordings, recitals attended, books, web articles, discussions with other musicians, knowledge of the period, knowledge of the composer's other works, personal insights into the piece ... whether you have the skill to realize in sound what you have conceived in your mind ...

(IMG:http://www.trose.net/pimage/gpiano2.gif)

[fyrtlemyrtle]

True, Mad Tom, but there are good editions and bad editions, good editorship and bad editorship, good scholarship and bad scholarship. One doesn't want to make the wrong decision because the lowest price won! There are many examples of old editions of Bach for example which were considered 'learned' in the early 20th century but now they are seen as archaic, idiosyncratic and downright inaccurate. Whilst study of them for their own sake is interesting, no sane performer would use them as a true urtext. One can still buy them from musicroom - a £6.95 volume looks good value to the uninitiated when the alternative is a £20 Barenreiter edition.

You are right of course about the influence of other factors on performance and your eloquent argument would find favour during a viva I would think!

[Mad Tom]

True, Mad Tom, but there are good editions and bad editions, good editorship and bad editorship, good scholarship and bad scholarship.

Yes I could rant for ages about this!

But - going off at a slight, but important tangent - does anyone know of any edition of Chopin where the staccato markings and Ped indications are not mutually contradictory - or of a book that properly explains this problem, instead of ignoring it?

e.g. Op 55. Am I supposed to play the bass line Staccato as marked, and Pedal, if at all, slightly after the note (Which actually sounds very good - though unconventional). Or am I supposed to use the pedal to hold the bass, which is what most pianists do, and which creates a completely different effect, in which case, why is the bass line marked staccato?

I have ben told that it is "Obvious" that you are supposed to hold the bass line with the pedal, but I don't see what is so obvious about it. It is conventional, but that means nothing, unless there is a sound reason why it has become the convention. I actually prefer the sound of the first way, but of course if I play it like that most listeners will think that I am simply playing it wrong.

Which markings are Chopin's. Which are editorial? If Chopin himself used contradictory markings, then what did he mean? Why would any musician write such notation when nothing is more certain than that it would cause headaches for thousands of pianists over centuries. Why should such a simple point ever become a problem at all - surely it is the job of any editor to clarify such difficulties of reading? Not to add to them.

(IMG:http://www.trose.net/pimage/gpiano2.gif)

[jod]

Oh and French editions are notoriously full of errors! It gives you loads of mileage about why you corrected which bit in the way you did.

[mrbouffant]

Oh and French editions are notoriously full of errors! It gives you loads of mileage about why you corrected which bit in the way you did.

So true.