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> Voici / Voila - Random Q For French Speakers?, look here and look there?
sarah-flute
post Jun 20 2006, 12:32 PM
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This is exceedingly random, I know: do the words "voici" and "voila" come from the verb "voir"? It just struck me that they could be elided forms of... um, don't know what the imperative of voir is... lol... but "look here" and "look there" could be voi ici and voi la?

Anyway I may be totally off track but just curious, I like to know where words like that sprang from! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Rainbow
post Jun 20 2006, 12:39 PM
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I have no idea of the answer but it seems like an interesting point. My friends and I worked out that if you call someone 'madame', you're actually calling them 'my lady' - it might seem basic but we were fascinated when we discovered that.
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sarah-flute
post Jun 20 2006, 12:51 PM
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Also applies to the other ones too:

mon-sieur ma-demoiselle, mes-dames et mes-sieurs

I don't know if sieur, demoiselle, etc, are in use solo in French these days, but I thought that was cool too.

In Russian, "now" is literally "this hour" and "today" is literally "this day" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


edit: not in a French dictionary, but "demoiselle" 1. A young woman.
"sieur" n. 1. Sir; - a title of respect used by the French.

I guess it would be like saying "My Lady, My Lord"

This post has been edited by sarah-flute: Jun 20 2006, 12:54 PM
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janexxx
post Jun 20 2006, 03:24 PM
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So is a masseur my sister (ma soeur)?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Choddy
post Jun 20 2006, 03:26 PM
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I've always wondered where aujourd'hui comes from. It's a very random word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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sarah-flute
post Jun 20 2006, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE(janexxx @ Jun 20 2006, 04:24 PM) *
So is a masseur my sister (ma soeur)?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

QUOTE(Choddy @ Jun 20 2006, 04:26 PM) *
I've always wondered where aujourd'hui comes from. It's a very random word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I've wondered the same. I wonder if one of our francophone members knows...
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hannah
post Jun 20 2006, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(Choddy @ Jun 20 2006, 03:26 PM) *

I've always wondered where aujourd'hui comes from. It's a very random word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)



Yeah I've wondered what the apostrophe is for...
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The Oboemeister
post Jun 20 2006, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE(sarah-flute @ Jun 20 2006, 01:32 PM) *

This is exceedingly random, I know: do the words "voici" and "voila" come from the verb "voir"? It just struck me that they could be elided forms of... um, don't know what the imperative of voir is... lol... but "look here" and "look there" could be voi ici and voi la?

Anyway I may be totally off track but just curious, I like to know where words like that sprang from! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with someone, but he wasn't sure either.
My guess is that Viola (especially because it has the accent on the a but I don't know how to type it) is as in "voir-la" and the "ci" might not even have to come from "ici"; as in, things like "celle-ci" and "ce garcon-ci" or whatever. Unless that's from "ici" too. But anyway, I reckon you're right, Sarah.

And as for aujourd'hui, I've no idea at all. There's no latin root in that, latin for "today" is "hodie", which would be kinda contrived to make it into "'hui".
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kerioboe
post Jun 20 2006, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE(sarah-flute @ Jun 20 2006, 12:51 PM) *



I don't know if sieur, demoiselle, etc, are in use solo in French these days, but I thought that was cool too.



"une demoiselle d'honneur" is still widely used to mean bridesmaid.
"demoiselle" can be used to mean spinister (a variation on vieille fille).
When I used to teach in a school, and a pupil came and knocked on the staffroom door other teachers would sometimes say "il y a une jeune demoiselle qui veut te voir"
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Bb Clarinet
post Jun 21 2006, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE(The Oboemeister @ Jun 20 2006, 07:34 PM) *


My guess is that Viola (especially because it has the accent on the a but I don't know how to type it) is as in "voir-la" and the "ci" might not even have to come from "ici"; as in, things like "celle-ci" and "ce garcon-ci" or whatever. Unless that's from "ici" too. But anyway, I reckon you're right, Sarah.




Viola?!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)





Okay...., I think I know the answer:

'hui', I think, is the old French word for today, but times were a changin' and they decided that 'hui' on its own was not a strong enough word.

so they added 'aujourd', which literally translates to 'on the day of...'.

the apostrophe comes from the liasion of 'au jour de' and 'hui' (because hui begins with an h) which gives 'au jour d'hui'

>>>> which joins to give 'aujourd'hui'


'hui' has the same etymology(?) as the spanish word for today (i've forgotten it) and it is definitely from the latin 'hodie'

do i get a gold star??????!!!!!
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sarah-flute
post Jun 21 2006, 02:03 PM
Post #11


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QUOTE(Bb Clarinet @ Jun 21 2006, 02:57 PM) *

Viola?!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Funnily enough, I posted the query after seeing "viola" misspelled as "voila" in a different thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Bb Clarinet
post Jun 21 2006, 02:08 PM
Post #12


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QUOTE(sarah-flute @ Jun 21 2006, 03:03 PM) *

QUOTE(Bb Clarinet @ Jun 21 2006, 02:57 PM) *

Viola?!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Funnily enough, I posted the query after seeing "viola" misspelled as "voila" in a different thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


hehe. i was reading it and thinking that M'sieur Hautbois-meister was going to give an interesting explanation of the derivative of 'viola!'
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janexxx
post Jun 22 2006, 07:39 AM
Post #13


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QUOTE(Bb Clarinet @ Jun 21 2006, 02:57 PM) *


Okay...., I think I know the answer:

'hui', I think, is the old French word for today, but times were a changin' and they decided that 'hui' on its own was not a strong enough word.

so they added 'aujourd', which literally translates to 'on the day of...'.

the apostrophe comes from the liasion of 'au jour de' and 'hui' (because hui begins with an h) which gives 'au jour d'hui'

>>>> which joins to give 'aujourd'hui'


'hui' has the same etymology(?) as the spanish word for today (i've forgotten it) and it is definitely from the latin 'hodie'

do i get a gold star??????!!!!!


Definitely!!
*goes off to fine gold star*

Spanish for today is hoy, or hoy dia. So yes, same root.

Here's your star
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Hero_of_the_USSR.png)
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andante_in_c
post Jun 22 2006, 07:56 AM
Post #14


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Now that's been resolved, does anyone know the reason why the French numbers from 70 to 99 are so peculiar? (Soixante, soixante-dix, quatre-vingt, quatre-vingt-dix etc.)
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sarah-flute
post Jun 22 2006, 10:26 AM
Post #15


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Anyone going to confirm voila and voici while they're at it? *grins*

I've often wondered that about 70+ myself.

Nice one, Bb - you deserved the gold star!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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