A shortened version of the Forums Rules is given below. The full version can be found here.
By maintaining a user account and by posting to these forums, you hereby agree to abide by these rules.
FORUMS RULES - A SNAPSHOT
- Stay safe - protect your privacy and respect the privacy of others
- No abusive, offensive or aggressive postings
- No insults or personal attacks
- No foul language
- No trolling
- No inappropriate or illegal material
- No advertising (including "For Sale" or "Wanted" adverts)
- No crossposting
- No forum spamming
- No defamatory comments
- Avoid using jargon, abbreviations or "text talk"
![]() ![]() |
| Seer_Green |
Mar 15 2012, 08:51 AM
Post
#16
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3078 Joined: 18-July 10 From: Bucks is in the distance... Member No.: 114670 |
From an accompanist's point of view...
I thoroughly enjoy accompanying and generally prefer it to solo playing. From my point of view there are quite a few difficulties involved. The first is that people often leave it far too late to engage an accompanist. This is when it becomes difficult to fit in with other work, and people are often offended that you can't drop everything! Secondly, as others have pointed out, people aren't really willing to pay for a good accompanist. Thirdly, people don't realise what's involved in it. To get a good end performance you need to rehearse and get to know each other, particularly at the higher grades. All in all I can see why we now have so few accompanists - it's a great shame, but people need to be valued for the things they do. |
| Listener |
Mar 15 2012, 08:52 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 676 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 56207 |
A good accompanist can lift a performance. They also need to be able to sight read when needed, often in front of others, read photocopies with bits missing from the base line, seamlessly cover up any errors by the soloist, and congratulate them when it's over. They are, sadly few and far between, and the really good ones ask the money they deserve. <...>" And quite right too. They aren't a charity, they have mouths to feed just like the rest of us. Lift a performance? Absolutely. Marvellous breed. |
| barry-clari |
Mar 15 2012, 09:08 AM
Post
#18
|
|
Maestro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 40577 Joined: 10-January 06 From: South East London Member No.: 5804 |
I think the shortage of accompanists will get worse and worse over the next couple of decades and it will reach the point where either the exams will have the option of a backing track (for at least the lower grades) or maybe some forward thinking exam board will provide an accompanist like for a festival. Agree that the shortage of good accompanists is likely to become more acute : but I think it most unlikely, on cost grounds, that any examining board will provide an accompanist a la festival - this is also likely, were it to happen, to adversely hit other accompanists' work, making the shortage worse. |
| Claudia's Mum |
Mar 15 2012, 02:13 PM
Post
#19
|
|
Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 18-September 06 From: London Member No.: 7704 |
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
|
| VH2 |
Mar 15 2012, 02:38 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 566 Joined: 8-June 11 Member No.: 268076 |
From an accompanist's point of view... Seer Green seems to have summarized it well people often leave it far too late to engage an accompanist. Enough said. people aren't really willing to pay for a good accompanist. I think this is the main problem. It is odd how someone will pay a plumber several hundred pounds for a call-out, but begrudges a similar amount for an accompanist that has spent much longer learning their skill, and may have spent several hours in specific preparation too. People are just unrealistic when the accompanist quotes a fee that is probably as low as they can go and still make the whole enterprise professionally worthwhile (i.e. contribute to making a living), and they see it as way too high. Accompanying someone in a half hour-exam exam can easily take 2 or 3 hours or more out of a day, incur travel costs, and take some time in preparation. It only becomes modestly priced if the accompanist can accompany several candidates at the same session, and spread the travel costs and preparation costs between them. Thirdly, people don't realise what's involved in it. Too true. Most people think that you simply put the score on the rack and play from it. That is possible, but when it can affect someone's prospects in an exam or an audition then there is a moral duty to do a good job, and unless you are a fantastic sight reader, or have played the piece before, or it is a very easy piece, then a lot of preparation may be required. |
| Yet another muso |
Mar 17 2012, 12:11 AM
Post
#21
|
|
Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 191 Joined: 22-May 10 Member No.: 103420 |
Very good to see this being discussed on the forums and the challenges of being an accompanist being highlighted. One of the great problems is how often I am asked at short notice to travel a large distance to play for just one exam. The exam itself may require just a few minutes of playing but of course I can only accept such work if I charge a fee that may appear unreasonable due to it taking a large chunk out of the day to get there and back, in the unlikely event that I'm actually free and not teaching or playing elsewhere at the time.
I can quite understand people not wanting to pay so much in the circumstances but there's not a lot we can do about it. It is so frustrating to get asked to do a whole raft of exams each session, usually in various different centres and and varying days, and as a result I have to turn most down. Much as it would be extra work for ABRSM, it could make life so much simpler for pianists and candidates alike if they offered an official accompanist service. Anyone entering could pay an additional fee to ABRSM if they wanted an official accompanist, then all those requesting the official accompanist could be grouped together on the same days as each other. The amount paid by the candidates would cover the extra admin costs for ABRSM to organise it, plus of course to pay the pianists. The pianists, working for a full day, would therefore play for a very large number of candidates, so even on a fair hourly rate this would work out less expensive per candidate than when a pianist has to travel a long way just to play for one person. It would therefore be less stressful and costly for students and teachers, and pianists, rather than being constantly asked to play for individual candidates, can just go to a centre, get the work done in a day and get a fair days pay for a days work. Of course requesting an official accompanist would be entirely optional, and anyone who wants their teacher or anyone else they know to play could still do so as at present. I accept this is probably never going to happen so this chaotic and frustrating situation will continue every term. Assuming this is the case, if people continue to quibble at accompanists charging to cover the time involved in getting to people's exams, pianists are going to decide more and more that it is just simpler to stop accompanying and to teach full time where we are not made guilty to earn a living. Pianists who give into the guilt and do not charge properly are just as guilty as it makes life even harder for the rest of us. I completely understand that after paying out for lessons then the exam fee, a high fee for an accompanist can be the final straw, but by quibbling this, you are saying that our work is less valid than that of teachers. I should add that accompanying is what I love most about playing the piano, but it doesn't stop the situation being frustrating! |
| Tenor Viol |
Mar 17 2012, 08:44 AM
Post
#22
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2889 Joined: 25-October 11 From: Shropshire Member No.: 343214 |
One of my choirs has enough funds to engage an accompanist for all rehearsals - it's a major role and we spent some effort recruiting a new one 18 months ago when our previous very good accompanist and organist sadly moved away.
Not only do they need to be able to play the orchestral reduction in the vocal score, but need to be able to reduce and play all of the vocal parts if necessary (hence why many are often organists). We pay a bit over GBP50 per two hour rehearsal plus a concert fee if they perform in the concert, the level of which depends on the role - rather more for playing one of the piano parts in the Brahms Requiem than for Christmas carols (between about GBP120 upto about GBP250)! Our current accompanist has a day job, whereas our previous accompanist that was his job and he was always in demand. Accompaniment is a skill in its own right. |
| BerkshireMum |
Mar 17 2012, 11:21 AM
Post
#23
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6603 Joined: 20-July 07 From: West Berks Member No.: 13405 |
One of my choirs has enough funds to engage an accompanist for all rehearsals - it's a major role and we spent some effort recruiting a new one 18 months ago when our previous very good accompanist and organist sadly moved away. Not only do they need to be able to play the orchestral reduction in the vocal score, but need to be able to reduce and play all of the vocal parts if necessary (hence why many are often organists). We pay a bit over GBP50 per two hour rehearsal plus a concert fee if they perform in the concert, the level of which depends on the role - rather more for playing one of the piano parts in the Brahms Requiem than for Christmas carols (between about GBP120 upto about GBP250)! Our current accompanist has a day job, whereas our previous accompanist that was his job and he was always in demand. Accompaniment is a skill in its own right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The current Choral accompanist here is absolutely fantastic. About a year ago he took and passed his FRCM and I went to the charity recital he did of his programme in a local church - wonderful! He has a day job, and I don't know what he is paid for playing at rehearsals, but it's presumably something similar to what your society pays. He's worth every penny! I used to sit open-mouthed as he skilfully played at sight some new piece which had come in, whilst the singers struggled to follow their one line of music! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
| sbhoa |
Mar 17 2012, 11:32 AM
Post
#24
|
|
Maestro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18930 Joined: 31-October 03 From: Tameside Member No.: 24 |
I completely understand that after paying out for lessons then the exam fee, a high fee for an accompanist can be the final straw, but by quibbling this, you are saying that our work is less valid than that of teachers. I should add that accompanying is what I love most about playing the piano, but it doesn't stop the situation being frustrating! Perhaps some of the resistance is that when opting their children into doing an exam the instrumental teacher doesn't always point out that on top of the exam fee there will be a substantial amount needed to pay the accompanist for rehearsal and for the exam. It's a problem for those playing instruments which need an accompanist where the teacher either doesn't play piano well enough or has to work where there is no access to a piano. It can be hard to accept that your child's exam is actually going to be more than twice the cost of the exam (and that's if you take the bare minimum amount of time with an accompanist which can be not enough if exams are the only experience of playing the pieces with the piano). |
| Alicia Ocean |
Mar 17 2012, 01:36 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2359 Joined: 21-April 07 From: Teacher of Piano and Flute Member No.: 10842 |
I think the current situation has arisen from an earlier age when many more people played the piano. Instrumental teachers would by and large accompany their own pupils, and if not, there would be plenty of people - parents of pupils even - to step in.
I doubt the current requirements for a live accompanist that you have to provide yourself would have been brought in had the exam system started now. Given that the exam boards are trying to run themselves as businesses it's just an unfathomably onerous requirement. Meanwhile a group of local teachers has got together and we enter our candidates in the name of the accompanist. We don't get our names on the certificates but everyone gets a good deal. |
| sbhoa |
Mar 17 2012, 01:53 PM
Post
#26
|
|
Maestro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18930 Joined: 31-October 03 From: Tameside Member No.: 24 |
I doubt the current requirements for a live accompanist that you have to provide yourself would have been brought in had the exam system started now. Given that the exam boards are trying to run themselves as businesses it's just an unfathomably onerous requirement. I think for solo work learning how to play with a live accompanist does matter. A recorded accompaniment can be useful but it doesn't really help with learning how to lead as a soloist..... then again only playing with an accompanist for maybe less than an hour for exam purposes only doesn't really give much time for that though careful choice of duet playing can go some way. I wonder whether most people learning to play these instruments are only really interested in playing in bands/orchestras? For them the whole pianist thing might seem more of an issue. |
| anacrusis |
Mar 17 2012, 02:21 PM
Post
#27
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5231 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 4852 |
I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't, you really need just the same skill level as for a more advanced player. A littlie playing thirty two bars of tweedle doodle deet, if they get lost, will still need to be rescued, will still need the help a steady accompanying beat can give, and even worse, because the littlie is only playing tweedle doodle deet, the accompanying part may well be somewhat difficult to compensate musically.
I do know, with my advanced player hat on now, how vital good accompaniment is if one wants to be able to give of one's best in a performance. When I played in the music festival locally, there was an option to use official accompanists, and quite frankly, having heard them on the day, I was very relieved to have had the assitance of YetAnotherPianist (and a harpsichord tuned by my husband) instead - not one of those others understood the idiom of the early music they were playing, nor were they able to respond to glitsches the way that YAP can. What effectively came across was two separate performances, by accompanist and instrumentalist, just at the same time as each other: YAP matches playing style, ornamentation and articulation too, and there is a sense of dialogue when playing together. The same was true in Egham, not so long ago: corenfa picked up the score she'd got, and was able to key into what I was doing seamlessly, leaving me free to play as expressively as I wanted...players like that lift what the soloist is doing - it's not so much accompaniment as playing together in that situation And yes, skill like that needs proper remuneration, and acknowledgement. |
| katica |
Mar 17 2012, 03:34 PM
Post
#28
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2400 Joined: 18-January 10 From: Central America Member No.: 87755 |
I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't, you really need just the same skill level as for a more advanced player. A littlie playing thirty two bars of tweedle doodle deet, if they get lost, will still need to be rescued, will still need the help a steady accompanying beat can give, and even worse, because the littlie is only playing tweedle doodle deet, the accompanying part may well be somewhat difficult to compensate musically. I do know, with my advanced player hat on now, how vital good accompaniment is if one wants to be able to give of one's best in a performance. When I played in the music festival locally, there was an option to use official accompanists, and quite frankly, having heard them on the day, I was very relieved to have had the assitance of YetAnotherPianist (and a harpsichord tuned by my husband) instead - not one of those others understood the idiom of the early music they were playing, nor were they able to respond to glitsches the way that YAP can. What effectively came across was two separate performances, by accompanist and instrumentalist, just at the same time as each other: YAP matches playing style, ornamentation and articulation too, and there is a sense of dialogue when playing together. The same was true in Egham, not so long ago: corenfa picked up the score she'd got, and was able to key into what I was doing seamlessly, leaving me free to play as expressively as I wanted...players like that lift what the soloist is doing - it's not so much accompaniment as playing together in that situation And yes, skill like that needs proper remuneration, and acknowledgement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think accompanying well is a remarkable skill. And if the pianist doesn't have it, it can be very unsettling to a solo player, especially if inexperienced or nervous anyway. A pianist here told me she her graduate-level qualification (from Cuba) is a specialism in piano accompaniment. I think it's a great thing there's recognition of the specific skills required. It's probably even more difficult to find pianists able to accompany here. Very few families can afford acoustic pianos and probably these days even fewer of those take piano lessons as kids (same as in the UK, according to AO). With the availability of digital pianos, the situation may pick up but it's at bit of a low right now. I was lucky to have an excellent young pianist accompany me in my first accompanied recital, and a friend (amazingly for these parts, also a harpsichordist) for the second, but it's quite a challenge to find competent pianists with the time, even if you're prepared to pay. I've resorted to backing tracks - for pieces for which I can get them - to get a feel of how the music sounds together. But obviously, as sbhoa says, it's not the same as interacting with a real pianist. For me playing at Forum activities and also at Dartington last year gave me a wonderful experience of being able to play with pianists. If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it. |
| sbhoa |
Mar 17 2012, 03:44 PM
Post
#29
|
|
Maestro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18930 Joined: 31-October 03 From: Tameside Member No.: 24 |
If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it. I know it's not what everybody either wants, can afford to do or can manage to organise or have time for but I've started having a monthly session with a good accompanist. My clarinet teacher is a more than decent pianist and accompanist but I'm now playing music with much more challenging piano parts. I've not done this with exams in mind. I think part of it is that if I wasn't going to be able to play the higher level music with the accompaniments it seemed as though it was hardly worth bothering carrying on with lessons as it would mean that my playing was going to be more restricted to ensemble playing..... I know that this isn't really true but the thought was there and after some talking about whether it was a good idea I found myself an accompanist to work with. |
| AnnC |
Mar 17 2012, 04:42 PM
Post
#30
|
|
Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2651 Joined: 8-February 06 Member No.: 6097 |
Anacrusis says. "I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't."
I agree. An accompanist I know from when I was at music college was playing for a singer who managed to get into the wrong key. No matter - he simply changed key to match. How many can do that? They are worth their weight in gold and I simply won't let my students sing with just any pianist. It doesn't help them one bit, but it does help them learn about the teamwork of performance when the pianist is a good accompanist. |
![]() ![]() |
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 24th May 2013 - 09:41 PM |