Bottom of a talented bunch at music college., Can you rise to the top? Options

[MNW]

Where does it say brave? I only read daft unless it has been re-edited. Nor was it posted in any way to show it was a joke. I also wasn't the only one that thought it was a dig alongside another comment on the Advice thread....

[KixMusic]

Going back to the original question and speaking from having been through it myself and having a child just finish at conservatoire - it really depends on the motivation of the individual. Some of the most talented musicians at the start of music college drop out or end up doing something completely different, and some of the 'average' musicians of my peer group at specialist school and college have ended up in great and well-respected musical positions. I think the same can be said of my son and his peer group - certainly on his course he entered as the one with the most previous performing experience and has had the motivation to keep pushing himself and is coping well in his first year out. He ended up with a lot of awards and prizes, but it is a constant round of practice, rehearsals and contacting people for work. A few of his peers couldn't take it and have dropped out, but one very insecure lad at the start of the course is now working regularly through sheer determination and effort. Above all, I would say that his peer group have been very supportive of each other (including those from other colleges) and we haven't come across any back-biting etc. They are a lovely bunch!

My experience of professional musicians, in whatever field they are in, is that they are very nice and generous with their praise of other musicians. There does not seem to be any jealousy, just an appreciation for how good their colleagues are. I think it's jealous, competitive parents that tend to come out with nasty comments.

You've clearly been lucky with the professional musicians you have met as it is one of the most demanding and insecure professions around because basically you are competing against your colleagues for places in orchestras, teaching work etc.

That's the same at music college too. If you "hit the ground running" as it were in the first year at music college and get decent seats in the first year ensembles (which you generally have to audition for in the first few weeks) then you will be "on the radar" and have a foothold in for the senior ensemble for future years. If you go largely unnoticed in the first year, then from what I witnessed when I did my music degree at a conservatoire, you will mostly remain that way. Some things can change that - i.e. winning an external high profile competition can boost you up the ranks but only if the staff know about it and value it.

[Czerny]

Where does it say brave? I only read daft unless it has been re-edited. Nor was it posted in any way to show it was a joke. I also wasn't the only one that thought it was a dig alongside another comment on the Advice thread....

It says "brave/daft" on Listener's post which notmusimum was quoting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[BadStrad]

I was wondering, if when a student enters music college do they always remain in the same position (all things being equal) compared to their peers? What I mean is: there are lots of musicians entering music college having just passed grade 8 and then there are some who have FRSM and others with considerable performing experience. Do the latter always stay ahead of the former

As a general rule I would say yes, basing my response on "Outliers" and the research of Anders Ericsson. When Ericsson compared violinists entering the Berlin Academy the best players had clocked up ~8000 hours of practice and those judged unlikely to ever play as professionals had clocked up ~4000 hours - on entry to the course. Once a player is good enough to get into music academy the thing that distinguishes top performers is how much they practice, how hard they work. Those starting college with 4000 hours are unlikely to ever catch up those with 8000 hours already under their belt in terms of expertise, and are thus unlikely to reach the top.

However music is more than playing accurately. A player with great expression could do well as a performer (but maybe not a top soloist), but they'd still need the hours to be able to bring out their expression.

[Chris H]

Where does it say brave? I only read daft unless it has been re-edited. Nor was it posted in any way to show it was a joke. I also wasn't the only one that thought it was a dig alongside another comment on the Advice thread....

It was obviously meant in a tongue in cheek way, as Notmusimum is one of those daft parents herself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (as am I - starting to wish I wasn't...)

[MNW]

Sorry then, its just been so hard recently because there have been unpleasant comments made on different threads that I've been unable to work out when a post does not have a double meaning. Time for me to post less I think!

[Listener]

That's rather arrogant to assume a large number of parents are "daft" to opt for specialism for their children. I would like to think that I wouldnt judge anyone for the choices they make even if it seems bizarre or conflicts with my ideals. Dig deep and one tends to find that it is the child that is pushing for specialism and the parent has tried to dissuade them or ignore their child's passions or talents for a long time. As long as the child is informed and continually made aware of the pro's and cons and is allowed to opt out at any point then I do not see the harm. Luckily the music schools in the UK offer a traditional academic education minus subjects such as media studies or psychology which seem to get one nowhere with uni applications. Sport is an issue but some children hate sport and some parents have to work around these issues.

Anyway this is way off topic and not relevant to the original post!

It was a joke on my part the quote says brave/daft enough. I don't think it was meant as an insult or judgemental at least I didn't see it that way.

*Waves hand at back of class, me Miss, me Miss*

Actually, it was me that used "brave/daft" in a (successful so far - HA!) attempt to stop snipey-snide comments from some forumites (you know who you are...) who have lately been wading into what I understand they see as over-pushy threads, and derailing other threads, and generally causing distress. MNW, I need hardly add that I was not having a go at you!

EDIT Hmm, from flurry of posts while I was composing my missive, it seems I have shot myself in the foot and caused as much distress as the forumites I was trying to protect us from. Ho hum.

[notmusimum]

Where does it say brave? I only read daft unless it has been re-edited. Nor was it posted in any way to show it was a joke. I also wasn't the only one that thought it was a dig alongside another comment on the Advice thread....

Sorry I'll make sure I explain my jokes in future and if I am getting at anyone I will make sure they know it and not do it in some underhand way. That's the way I've always operated and will continue to operate if you and your cronies don't like it.........

Look at the bit I quoted where it says brave/daft.

I haven't told or implied to anyone else that I have a problem with their attitude and I would say straight if that were the case.

[MNW]

Now i am totally embarrassed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

I'm very sorry notmusicmum and Listener and I am going to slink off and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) for a bit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[notmusimum]

Now i am totally embarrassed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

I'm very sorry notmusicmum and Listener and I am going to slink off and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) for a bit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I think you need to take a step back and realise every post isn't a slight.

I can only speak for myself but I reply to threads based on outside experience. It's not always possible to explain the opinions one holds publically.

You can talk about teacher situations, school choices etc but once you've made those school choices and your childcan be identified then you can't always say.

To get back on topic....

If there were no politics in these institutions life would be a lot easier and those that deserved the opportunities would get them. It would be possible for someone who was at the bottom to rise to the top. I'm not saying that isn't possible just that other factors are likely to play a part.

[Arundodonuts]

If there were no politics in these institutions life would be a lot easier and those that deserved the opportunities would get them.

But life without politics notmusimum? It ain't going to happen is it? You must be daft. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Chris H]

I wonder how much string pulling goes on behind the scenes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I bet it's really common - some one has actually offered to pull strings for my son to get him onto a course he doesn't want to do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No such luck with the courses he does want....

[notmusimum]

If there were no politics in these institutions life would be a lot easier and those that deserved the opportunities would get them.

But life without politics notmusimum? It ain't going to happen is it? You must be daft. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Maybe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The playing up playing down that goes on is a bit annoying though I realise to some extent why it happens. Before anyone jumps down my throat it's not sour grapes. There has been no personal affront.

I wonder how much string pulling goes on behind the scenes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I bet it's really common - some one has actually offered to pull strings for my son to get him onto a course he doesn't want to do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No such luck with the courses he does want....

Depends who you know and how far they are prepared to stick their neck out for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

We could always buy a few shots to smooth the way in November (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I know a man open to influence (well I don't know him but you know what I mean (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[Chris H]

Are you saying we should get him drunk? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Now that's an idea...then we can influence him with our charms. On second thoughts, no (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

[notmusimum]

Are you saying we should get him drunk? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Now that's an idea...then we can influence him with our charms. On second thoughts, no (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) He might be my type (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)