Hymns and the Visitor, Any suggestions? Options

[jod]

Vicaress: I agree, we should change it. (There was little other choice.)

Verger: The music group won't like that.

SBJ: Where is the music group; can one of them play it on guitar?

Verger: They are on holiday.

I think this pretty much sums up the whole exchange. Classic.

I played the Organ for a service where the music group couldn't practise as they were enjoying a New Years Eve Party only to receive complaints. Then when I handed in my invoice, the Church Warden complained to the regular organist that I wanted paying and could they not use me in future. I'd only been playing for the Toddler Service Gratis for them as well as that had been as service where the musician had traditionally played without payment.

When I explained all this to the ladies who ran the Toddler Service they were appauled! They particularly liked the way I put extra sound effects on the Piano that were not written in the music to illustrate bits of the worship songs and the children liked them. What was more I was prepared to work with them when planning music so it was an integral part and not an added extra. It appeared that one member of the music group (also on the PCC) had ideas above his station and did not recognise the three years spent in a music department. Unfortunately the regular Organist refuses to serve on the PCC and the Church was in interregnum at the time. The Church Warden was none to pleased when I said, what does the Arch-Deacon say about this given we have no Minister at the time and I played the music as specified for the service on the best instrument for the job?

Everything went very quiet at that point. The trouble is it was the last straw. This was the Church who neglected to pray when it looked like I needed skin-grafts after my burns. Who failed to realise the impact my husband's effective dismissal had on him and the family. I wanted to play, but I really did not want the grief anymore.

Swell Box et all stand your ground this could be you. Your views matter, and visitors to your church do not want to walk into an unholy row about Church Music because a Trendy member of the Clergy has a bee in their bonnet about modern stuff, when they're expecting traditional hymns with Organ Accompaniment.

[saxophile]

I think the Church of England (especially) is in a very difficult place at the moment, for all sorts of reasons. I would hate to be a Vicar - trying to decide how to help the church grow, and how to attract young people. (Personally I think the best way is to give them something to do, for example singing in a choir that makes the most of it's resources, and sings some decent music, but also takes into account the needs of the congregation). But how do we drag in a significant number of those who have no church connection at all?

I've only just come to this thread, but I just had to say how much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with the above. We have just had a new organist at our church, who as well as upping the standard of our singing immeasurably, has also visited the local (CE) primary school to invite children to join the (very small) choir. We now have 3 new (girl) trebles (one of whom is actually a Muslim, but we've reached an accommodation with her family as to what parts of the service she is involved in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) who are as keen as mustard and come along faithfully to choir practice and to the Sunday service. Since previously the only two persons in regular attendance under the age of (well, probably my age (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) were my two sons, this has increased the average number of children in the congregation by 150%.....

[Swell Box]

There is one aspect of this story that I find quite amusing, but hypocritical at the same time.

The church has a music group which it seems must be kept happy at all times and at any cost. The happy-clappy band used to have their own service later on a Sunday, but this was failing badly, so it was merged with the main service, and considerable compromises were made [in terms of music and the words used in the liturgy] to accommodate them.

They clearly feel that nothing should stand in the way of evangelising the church; but as several of them are school teachers they disband during school holidays, but still expect their musical preferences to be respected.

Surely if their calling is so strong they would arrange their holidays so that musical cover was maintained throughout the year?

(I should make it clear that as far as I am concerned they can go away on holiday for as long and as far away as they like; just so long as they take their music with them to sing around the camp fire.)

On another subject, I was told only yesterday of a longstanding member who has recently left the church in protest at an article in the parish magazine, in which the [purported] results of a survey of young people was published. According to the survey none of the young people liked organ music or 'old fashioned hymns', but said that they liked drums and guitars.

It turns out that the "young people" involved in the survey were carefully selected, as they were either children of music group members, or their friends, so this was hardly an unbiased poll. Crucially, the organist, who is also a teenager, was not asked for his views. I wonder why?

How low will these people stoop to get their own way?

SB

[Rogue Organist]

(New poster so apologies for dredging up old thread)

None of these would have them rocking at Greenbelt, admittedly, but my contention is that the irregular visitor is unlikely to be all that familiar with the alternative hymns that I have been instructed to play i.e 'Morning has Broken, 'Give me oil in my lamp' and 'O Jesus I have promised', either. Clearly, no more thought has gone into this selection than could be managed in the blink of an eye.

I find the best strategy in such situations is the 'Colin Sell Gambit'. That is, to acquiesce willingly and play the hymns that have been requested. To the tune of another.

'Morning Has Borken', for example, would go happily to a random 10 9 10 9 tune such as this, which for all its lack of musical merit does at least have the element of surprise.

Better still is to play it to a tune which you are sure the congregation will know. That is, after all, why you have been asked to play these hymns. How could the minister complain?

So, I think you could make a creditable fist of 'Morning Has Borken' to Maccabeus ('Thine Be the Glory'). You'd have to sing two syllables (equal length) to the last note of the first and third lines. The congregation would love it. Do remember to modulate up at least one tone on the last verse. And to use the Solo Tuba.

[Barry Williams]

"[i]How low will these people stoop to get their own way?[i]"

So low they could walk beneath a snake's belly with a top hat on and have plenty of space clear above.

I recall a similar 'survey' being done in a church in the 1970s. It was clearly loaded in such a way as to get a particular result - that the choir should sing less. Fortunately, there were several people in the congregation who knew what they were about. The 'survey' was (metaphorically) torn to shreds at a public meeting and the person who instigated it (the vicar) discredited on that matter. When a competent survey was done some months later it was found that there was strong support for the work for the work of the choir and the most unpopular feature of worship was 'Series III' Holy Communion which the vicar had introduced. When the new vicar came 'Series III' was dropped and the congrgation grew within two weeks.

I do not understand why it is assumed that the Holy Spirit can only work with a particular style of music or liturgy in church, the musical style not being modern, but in fact very dated - usually 'Songs of Fellowship', of something similar.

In respect of 'Morning has broken' it should be remembered that this item is outside all CCLI arrangements. Separate permission is needed to print the words on wedding/funerals/Sunday service sheets. Permission should be obtained from David Higham Associates Limited.

Barry Williams

[mel2]

I enjoyed Rogue Organist's guerilla tactic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and since reading it have been trying to make the words of MHB fit Thine Be the Glory in my head, but I find I have half a verse left over.

I agree it fits the other tune though. If I employ this strategy I shall check my exit route is clear at the end of the service before doing a Jonah Lomu for the west door, clutching bag to bosom and felling anyone in my way.

Barry, about the CCLI arrangements: if a service sheet is printed with the hymns in (to spare those unfamiliar with hymn books the trouble of looking up the numbers), does one need to check if permission should be sought, or will it be made plain in the hymn book if the words can be reproduced? This is something I hadn't thought of.

[Barry Williams]

"Barry, about the CCLI arrangements: if a service sheet is printed with the hymns in (to spare those unfamiliar with hymn books the trouble of looking up the numbers), does one need to check if permission should be sought, or will it be made plain in the hymn book if the words can be reproduced? This is something I hadn't thought of."

In most hymn books the date of death of the author/poet is given. Copyright exists for the life of the author plus seventy years.

However, a further copyright may exist if the words of the hymn have been altered, as had occured (frequently and very badly) in the case of the New English Hymnal. (Even worse in 'Hymns for Today's Church.') Thus an editor altering a hymn that is out of copyright produces a new copyright item in his new version.

Similarly, a new copyright item is created if a composer arranges an out of copyright piece, though CCLI seemed not to recognise arrangers' rights a year or two back.

Most hymn books have specific pages dealing with the ownership of copyrights, giving details of who to apply to for permission. Modern books, more helpfully, often print the information at the bottom of the hymn page in the music editions. (e.g. Common Praise.)

If the hymn books are used permission only needs to be obtained for the performance rights.

Barry Williams

[mel2]

Thank you for the clarification Barry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mrbouffant]

If the hymn books are used permission only needs to be obtained for the performance rights.

I always understood that in the context of Divine Worship, no permission is required for the performance of copyrighted material. Am I mistaken?

[Barry Williams]

In law charges are exigible. The Performing Rights Society does not, at present, levy charges for performances of copyright works during acts of divine worship. This is a concession, not applicable on the Continent, where charges are always made.

However, a number of businesses are making good money charging wedding couples fees for a general 'wedding licence' that includes acts of worship in churches. It may be that these include the playing of CDs.

Barry Williams

[principal4]

In law charges are exigible.

'Exigible'. What a lovely word!

P4

[Aquarelle]

Off topic but I have just read through this thread and as I am at the moment re-watching "The Barchester Chronicles" (such a delight!) - plus ?a change ......

[Vox Humana]

I find the best strategy in such situations is the 'Colin Sell Gambit'. That is, to acquiesce willingly and play the hymns that have been requested. To the tune of another.

You could try the following:

O Jesus, I have promised - The Muppets Theme
O Jesus, I have promised - Match of the Day
At the name of Jesus - Puff the magic dragon
Let us break bread together - She'll be coming round the mountain
What a friend we have in Jesus - Mack the knife
In heavenly love abiding - The Addams family
O love that will not let me go - Blackadder

[carol*piano]

You could try the following:

O Jesus, I have promised - The Muppets Theme

This is going to be stuck in my head forever now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[vectistim]

I think the best one was a confirmation service I sang at where the organist didn't recognise any of the potential tunes for 'We pray thee, heavenly Father' and instead we sang it to the tune for 'Every sperm is sacred' (to make it fit the first note was repeated to put the first syllable on an up beat).