Grade 8 violin scales., D flat major :/ Options

[violin123]

So I've finally reached the dizzy heights of preparing for grade 8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) under the new 2012 syllabus.

It's all going pretty smoothly but, as always, there's that one pesky scale that I just can't get right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) D flat major, three octaves. Every time I play it I end on a D, not D flat. I check my tuning and it's normally out of tune after the first octave, which is strange seeing as I think I did it (2 octaves) for grade 6 with same fingering and was totally fine. The other annoying think is I can't even hear it shifting sharp, and overall I have a good ear for tuning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Can anyone help and is anyone having similar issues? Also, how's everyone finding the new syllabus? Which pieces are you doing? I'm doing Haydn C Major - 3rd movement, Dancla Resignation and John Williams Remembrances.

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[owainsutton]

What fingering are you using? If you're starting in third position, then maybe a dominance of pieces using D-major-ish positions since Grade 6 has erased a lot of the muscle memory you had then?

Also, if starting in third position, check the fourth finger F against open D, the first finger G flat against open A, etc., to find out if it's the string crossings which are where you're drifting sharp.

[violin123]

What fingering are you using? If you're starting in third position, then maybe a dominance of pieces using D-major-ish positions since Grade 6 has erased a lot of the muscle memory you had then?

Also, if starting in third position, check the fourth finger F against open D, the first finger G flat against open A, etc., to find out if it's the string crossings which are where you're drifting sharp.

I have been starting out in 3rd position so thanks, will try that next practice!

[owainsutton]

There's two ways of approaching a very flat key. One is to keep in true third position, and work with extended 1st fingers. The other is to bring the whole hand back to 'two-and-a-halfth' position, and play with the same handshape as D major. There's benefits to either, and I'd suggest asking your teacher which they'd prefer you to use at this stage.

Personally, I prefer the latter, and am disappointed Grade 8 no longer requires every major and minor key!

[violincjj]

There's two ways of approaching a very flat key. One is to keep in true third position, and work with extended 1st fingers. The other is to bring the whole hand back to 'two-and-a-halfth' position, and play with the same handshape as D major. There's benefits to either, and I'd suggest asking your teacher which they'd prefer you to use at this stage.

Personally, I prefer the latter, and am disappointed Grade 8 no longer requires every major and minor key!

Yes but you don't have a 14 year old son who says things like 'I'll play the easiest nearby scale to the one they ask me and they won't notice the difference' waiting to do Grade 8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[owainsutton]

Yes but you don't have a 14 year old son who says things like 'I'll play the easiest nearby scale to the one they ask me and they won't notice the difference' waiting to do Grade 8

Is it too late to tell him lies, such as "To be an examiner, you have to have perfect pitch"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Edit: or maybe truths, such as "They hear Grade 1 violins playing D major all day long. They know a D flat when they hear it"...

[violincjj]

Yes but you don't have a 14 year old son who says things like 'I'll play the easiest nearby scale to the one they ask me and they won't notice the difference' waiting to do Grade 8

Is it too late to tell him lies, such as "To be an examiner, you have to have perfect pitch"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Edit: or maybe truths, such as "They hear Grade 1 violins playing D major all day long. They know a D flat when they hear it"...

Well, he already found out about the tooth fairy so yes, it probably is. I will resort to my usual plan of Bribery nearer the time!

[jojo]

Violin123,

my teacher has taught me all 3 octave major scales (and minors) from Bb upward (to Fsharp,sorry I know this one is not on grade 8 syllabus but he does get me to do 'all' major and melodic/minor scales up to Fsharp anyway), to start them on 2nd finger and observe exactly the same fingering (of course minors will be slightly different to majors (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)....)

I have to move my hand up the fingerboard respectively so that my second finger is on the starting note on the G string.

So for Db major I would be in 'twoandahalfposition' like 'owainsutton' was saying.

[ELLAonthepiano]

I don't know why, but I find it a lot easier to think of it as C#? I think sharp keys are generally much easier to play in on the violin, even though it's pretty much enharmonically identical. I would also start in twoandahalf-position though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd been planning to do grade 8 last term but for various reasons I decided to postpone it - but although I'm still doing 2008-2011 pieces (Corelli, Grieg and Senfter) I have to do the new scales requirements instead! It's so annoying because they've got rid of some of my favourites (G major (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ), but made the three octave ones higher and changed the arpeggios, dims and doms so some of the ones I'd spent so long perfecting are no longer relevant. Sorry I've gone off on a bit of a tangent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[violin123]

I don't know why, but I find it a lot easier to think of it as C#? I think sharp keys are generally much easier to play in on the violin, even though it's pretty much enharmonically identical. I would also start in twoandahalf-position though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd been planning to do grade 8 last term but for various reasons I decided to postpone it - but although I'm still doing 2008-2011 pieces (Corelli, Grieg and Senfter) I have to do the new scales requirements instead! It's so annoying because they've got rid of some of my favourites (G major (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ), but made the three octave ones higher and changed the arpeggios, dims and doms so some of the ones I'd spent so long perfecting are no longer relevant. Sorry I've gone off on a bit of a tangent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Thank you everyone - it's improving now as I tried what you all said. 'Two and a halfth position' seems to work!

ELLAonthepiano, I'm not sure what to make of the new scales, glad they got rid of the three octaves to a bow thing before I got there though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I'd say the hardest is the E minor slurred arpeggio, all in one bow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) just comes out as a bit of a squeak at the moment...

[ELLAonthepiano]

Thank you everyone - it's improving now as I tried what you all said. 'Two and a halfth position' seems to work!

ELLAonthepiano, I'm not sure what to make of the new scales, glad they got rid of the three octaves to a bow thing before I got there though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I'd say the hardest is the E minor slurred arpeggio, all in one bow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) just comes out as a bit of a squeak at the moment...

Yeah I definitely think the arpeggios are the hardest, especially the highest ones :S I'm not a fan of the thirds either, but it's getting there - I just hope I've perfected them before march!