Paying children to practice Options

[dolce@piano]

I've always been a bit more 'stick than 'carrot'. It sounds bad but my premise is that:

a - if you're going to do something than you might as do it quite well (not 100%, max, out of this world but at least passably 'well'),

b - if you sign up for piano at the start of the year then you're committed for the whole year,

hence, c - you should play the piano 'well' (at least for that year) and that involves practising.

Spontaneous treats for good results/whatever seems a nice thing but I hate actual reward charts/bribery or anything along that line (and, no, toddlers don't count - they're a whole separate rule-set, a lot of which depends on your level of sleep and sanity at the time!).

And, Lorraine, I wouldn't hold back from giving Granny your point of view - you're not telling her (or the parents) how to parent, this is a musical issue, not life in general, and you're only giving your opinion, they're not obliged to follow it.

[tonedeafmum]

I have a 7 year old student that is perfectly able to play the piano but, according to his granny, would rather play Club Penguin and Moshi Monsters on the computer, so she pays him a QUID each time he practices.

I also feel like a complete MUG for having given him a medal at our recent Summer Concert for daily practice as if I'd known it was bribery-based practice, then I'd not have been so keen on rewarding that.

Is it possible that these two facts are related? Parents and grandparents can be highly motivated by the possibility of their little darlings winning a prize in public. In these days of 'Celebration Assemblies', 'Target Assemblies', 'Star of the Week,' and 'Headteacher's/Deputy Headteacher's Awards' kids are much less bothered. Have a 'Hard Work' or 'Good Effort' medal instead - if you must. Not a big 'medal' fan myself.

[Undine]

I used to pay our eight year old son one Belgian franc per minute to practise clarinet. It wasn't a fortune, but it got him practising for 20 - 30 minutes daily in the early stages. This was thirty years ago! After a year or so he was making good progress and was enjoying it, and said he didn't need to be paid any more. At 15 he achieved a distinction at grade 8, thoroughly enjoyed playing in the school orchestra, and is still playing thirty years on. I think it gave him the initial impetus to get to a stage where he really enjoyed it. It depends on the child, I think.

[lorraineliyanage]

Is it possible that these two facts are related? Parents and grandparents can be highly motivated by the possibility of their little darlings winning a prize in public. In these days of 'Celebration Assemblies', 'Target Assemblies', 'Star of the Week,' and 'Headteacher's/Deputy Headteacher's Awards' kids are much less bothered. Have a 'Hard Work' or 'Good Effort' medal instead - if you must. Not a big 'medal' fan myself.

My kids LOVE winning medals and trophies - they are definitely the best motivation tool that I have come across in all my years of teaching. I also remember the sense of pride at being presented a massive shield by my piano teacher when I was in my final year of school.

The bribery system has been going on for quite a while it transpires, at least before he got the medal, although he just sat his theory exam, so we haven't done an awful lot of piano playing in the last term other than preparing a piano trio for the Summer concert. Perhaps the lack of playing lately has been the problem trying to get him back into the swing of things.

I think I will have a word at the next lesson and just mention how it will make things worse in the long run.

[saxophile]

quite simple. Who gives the child access to Club Penguin and Moshi Monsters? Surely at age 7 a parent can control the off button on a PC ... or they are storing up big problems down the line.

Just ensure that they don't know the password to log onto the computer and you don't even need to control the on/off button. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/muahaha.gif)

[Halka]

I used to pay our eight year old son one Belgian franc per minute to practise clarinet. It wasn't a fortune, but it got him practising for 20 - 30 minutes daily in the early stages. This was thirty years ago! After a year or so he was making good progress and was enjoying it, and said he didn't need to be paid any more. At 15 he achieved a distinction at grade 8, thoroughly enjoyed playing in the school orchestra, and is still playing thirty years on. I think it gave him the initial impetus to get to a stage where he really enjoyed it. It depends on the child, I think.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

No doubt this is what the grandma hopes will happen. Different families have different strategies for making practice happen and, so long as the practice is effective (and perhaps it isn't here?), I don't think the music teacher should interfere.

I also am "guilty" of having offered small monetary bribes when my daughter was small. It seems so long ago now that I can't quite remember how our system worked, but I do know that usually I forgot to pay her, and she usually forgot to pursue her claim to payment! There's probably a double parenting sin there somewhere. I just looked on this as a way for her to earn a small amount of pocket money to spend/save as she wished in much the same way as (I understand) some children only get pocket money if they've done their chores - and it's unrealistic to think that music practice isn't a chore for many 7 year olds.

Like undine's son, it looks like daughter will be taking grade 8 clarinet at 15 and she is still busy doing lots of other music, so hopefully is not scarred for life...

[Crotchetymum]

What's a pound here or there? Felicity's mother promised her a car for taking part in the Christmas concert (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

*Edit - posted the links here but am moving them as they may lead to off topic-ness*

[BadStrad]

I like the sticker chart idea

I have stickers that I put into my violin learning journal. I found that it was so easy to focus on what I was doing "wrong" that I rarely celebrated, or even acknowledged what I did right. So now when I'm writing up a lesson or a practice, I give myself a sticker to mark the good points. I guess that sounds a bit childish, but flicking through the book seeing the smiley stickers really cheers me up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Friends with kids tell me that sticker schemes are popular in their schools. Maybe the key to any incentive based scheme, money, stickers, IT time is to work out what to reward? From reading around the subject - acknowledging effort (you worked hard) leads to a much higher level of achievement than praising achievement (you did well). Hmm - maybe I need to change my stickering regime. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I don't think this is helping the OP much - but it's an area I find interesting.

Oh and I totally agree with the posters who think the parents should control the IT/TV access, but then I don't have kids so it's easy for me to say. Despite that I do think that not giving a child boundaries does it no favours in the long term. Shall I get off my soap box now?

To OP - I hope you can get the gran on side.

[notmusimum]

And can't she just stop the child playing on the computer? Say 'no'? Or am i completely old fashioned?!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Much better to reward practice time with computer time instead of cash.

I do pay my child to practice it's called buying music and paying for lessons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I'm a seriously cruel parent as no practice would mean no lesson.

[tonedeafmum]

What's a pound here or there? Felicity's mother promised her a car for taking part in the Christmas concert (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

*Edit - posted the links here but am moving them as they may lead to off topic-ness*

If he won the 'daily practice' medal at a pound a practice that's ?365 a year - by the time he's 17 he can buy his own car!
What would a 7 year old boy spend ?7 a week on anyway?

[notmusimum]

Friends with kids tell me that sticker schemes are popular in their schools.

Before I had the kids I worked in a training environment. It was easy money for a long time and the training for 16 to 18 year olds had become chaotic. The funding changed and the trainees had to actually achieve an NVQ or there would be no payment for the provider.

I was very new to dealing with the tests, the age group and the organisation. No-one knew where they were up to. I ruled a chart of all the tests and each time one was completed I put a sticker on (it was only a dot). I didn't trust them not to pen in the tests themselves but the stickers were kept under lock and key. You have never seen such a change round in behaviour. Stickers can work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mad Tom]

Paying Children to Practice?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Silly idea.

[Halka]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Much better to reward practice time with computer time instead of cash.

Why?

Edit: I'm just curious to know why everyone thinks that one kind of manipulation is fine but another is beyond the pale..

[PianissiMole]

I have a 7 year old student that is perfectly able to play the piano but, according to his granny, would rather play Club Penguin and Moshi Monsters on the computer, so she pays him a QUID each time he practices. A seven year old being paid to play the piano!

If he's paid, I guess that makes him a professional! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[lorraineliyanage]

If he's paid, I guess that makes him a professional! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

What a good point! I am going to mention this to him and say that he better make each lesson a performance as he's earning cash for it!!!