Doctrine Of Figures

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Doctrine Of Figures, clarification please?

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magicflute	Feb 26 2007, 10:50 PM Post #1
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 710 Joined: 18-January 07 From: Cornwall Member No.: 9114	What exactly is the doctrine of figures? Is it just using and developing the same material - modulating etc? I just want to know if I'm on the right lines! I hope someone can help! Thanks in advance... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

jm-hamilton	Feb 27 2007, 10:25 PM Post #2
Virtuoso Group: Members Posts: 2229 Joined: 4-January 05 From: By the sea Member No.: 2857	QUOTE(magicflute @ Feb 26 2007, 10:50 PM) What exactly is the doctrine of figures? Is it just using and developing the same material - modulating etc? I just want to know if I'm on the right lines! I hope someone can help! Thanks in advance... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I don't know, I'm afraid I've never heard the term 'doctrine of figures'. To me figures in music theory apply to figured basses. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help?

Fibi	Feb 27 2007, 10:36 PM Post #3
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 10-January 07 From: Neither here nor there Member No.: 8976	I vaguely recall coming across it in a Baroque music history class. I think it's something along the lines of there being musical figures equivalent to rhetorical figures of speech. Sorry I can't remember anything more specific

sneekymum	Feb 27 2007, 10:42 PM Post #4
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 869 Joined: 18-May 06 Member No.: 6958	QUOTE(Fibi @ Feb 27 2007, 10:36 PM) I vaguely recall coming across it in a Baroque music history class. I think it's something along the lines of there being musical figures equivalent to rhetorical figures of speech. Sorry I can't remember anything more specific that's interesting... I found this - http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-12102...-Sebastian-Bach "A repertoire of melody types existed, for example, that was generated by an explicit â€œdoctrine of figuresâ€ that created musical equivalents for the figures of speech in the art of rhetoric"

Fibi	Feb 27 2007, 11:03 PM Post #5
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 10-January 07 From: Neither here nor there Member No.: 8976	QUOTE(sneekymum @ Feb 27 2007, 10:42 PM) QUOTE(Fibi @ Feb 27 2007, 10:36 PM) I vaguely recall coming across it in a Baroque music history class. I think it's something along the lines of there being musical figures equivalent to rhetorical figures of speech. Sorry I can't remember anything more specific that's interesting... I found this - http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-12102...-Sebastian-Bach "A repertoire of melody types existed, for example, that was generated by an explicit â€œdoctrine of figuresâ€ that created musical equivalents for the figures of speech in the art of rhetoric" That looks like it alright (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I don't remember learning much about this in relation to Bach though, I think it was mainly earlier Baroque composers (Monteverdi, Gesualdo and a bit of Purcell too)

Fibi	Feb 28 2007, 09:03 AM Post #6
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 10-January 07 From: Neither here nor there Member No.: 8976	No actually, scratch that. Just thinking about it and I think the Gesualdo thing I was thinking of is something else altogether, not sure what it's called or even if it has a name. I seem to remember a lot of this kind of thing (pictorial symbolism etc as mentioned in sneekymum's linked article) relating to Monteverdi's L'Orfeo. Also I think that chromatic descending bass in Dido's lament is supposed to represent her descent into the grave (I can't think of any other Purcell examples). I think the doctrine of figures is a much more specific type of pictorial symbolism though. Hope this helps a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

magicflute	Feb 28 2007, 03:00 PM Post #7
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 710 Joined: 18-January 07 From: Cornwall Member No.: 9114	Thanks, the article that sneekymum put a link for says rising pitch for when normal voices would go up or something to that effect. Isn;t this word painting?!

Fibi	Feb 28 2007, 08:31 PM Post #8
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 10-January 07 From: Neither here nor there Member No.: 8976	I think it is essentially word-painting, yes. They seem to have used the phrase "pictorial symbolism" in the article to mean just that. But I would also say that the figures thing is a bit more specific - being related to particular parts of the text and rhetorical gestures and how they're represented musically. I don't know if that makes any sense or even how to explain it a bit better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

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