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> Pedants' Paradise, Spelling and Grammar Notes and Queries
Juniper
post Dec 29 2010, 08:18 PM
Post #61


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Ok, maybe somebody can clarify for me a constant disagreement between myself and the landlord of my local.

I say that sometimes, the correct wording is "....... and me" rather than "......... and I".

For example,
"the present was for Me and ............." Whereas in this sentence
"......... and I bought you a present" would be correct.

I always thought the rule was, if you were just talking about yourself and would use "me", the same would apply when adding somebody else.

If this makes any sense at all, please put me out of my misery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Celeste
post Dec 29 2010, 08:43 PM
Post #62


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The rule with me/I is that the sentence has to make sense without the other person.

For example, "Matthew and I went shopping..." This sentence would make sense without Matthew - "I went shopping."

However, "Matthew and me went shopping..." would not make sense - "Me went shopping..."

And you always put the other person first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Juniper
post Dec 29 2010, 08:45 PM
Post #63


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QUOTE(Celeste @ Dec 29 2010, 08:43 PM) *

The rule with me/I is that the sentence has to make sense without the other person.

For example, "Matthew and I went shopping..." This sentence would make sense without Matthew - "I went shopping."

However, "Matthew and me went shopping..." would not make sense - "Me went shopping..."

And you always put the other person first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Ha, that's what I thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Not that he'll accept it mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Czerny
post Dec 29 2010, 08:48 PM
Post #64


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QUOTE(Juniper @ Dec 29 2010, 08:18 PM) *

Ok, maybe somebody can clarify for me a constant disagreement between myself and the landlord of my local.

I say that sometimes, the correct wording is "....... and me" rather than "......... and I".

For example,
"the present was for Me and ............." Whereas in this sentence
"......... and I bought you a present" would be correct.

I always thought the rule was, if you were just talking about yourself and would use "me", the same would apply when adding somebody else.

If this makes any sense at all, please put me out of my misery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Your two examples are basically correct (although Celeste is right about putting the other person first) - I think it's to do with whether you're using nominative or accusative case (i.e. whether you are the subject or the object of the verb).

But why do you need to use "myself" in your first sentence?! It's an argument between you and the landlord, surely? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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Juniper
post Dec 29 2010, 08:51 PM
Post #65


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QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 08:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Juniper @ Dec 29 2010, 08:18 PM) *

Ok, maybe somebody can clarify for me a constant disagreement between myself and the landlord of my local.

I say that sometimes, the correct wording is "....... and me" rather than "......... and I".

For example,
"the present was for Me and ............." Whereas in this sentence
"......... and I bought you a present" would be correct.

I always thought the rule was, if you were just talking about yourself and would use "me", the same would apply when adding somebody else.

If this makes any sense at all, please put me out of my misery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Your two examples are correct - I think it's to do with whether you're using nominative or accusative case (i.e. whether you are the subject or the object of the verb).

But why do you need to use "myself" in your first sentence?! It's an argument between you and the landlord, surely? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


Oh ****. I will now go away and beat myself with a copy of the OED (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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miffy
post Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM
Post #66


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Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
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Czerny
post Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM
Post #67


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QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?
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miffy
post Dec 29 2010, 09:23 PM
Post #68


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QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?


Oh dear! I really am rubbish at this..
Is there any hope? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
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corenfa
post Dec 29 2010, 09:26 PM
Post #69


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QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 09:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?


Oh dear! I really am rubbish at this..
Is there any hope? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)


Not for I.. I's rubbish at this too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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Juniper
post Dec 29 2010, 09:27 PM
Post #70


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QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?

Oh wow, that's now in my Amazon basket, thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Czerny
post Dec 29 2010, 09:28 PM
Post #71


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QUOTE(Juniper @ Dec 29 2010, 09:27 PM) *

QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?

Oh wow, that's now in my Amazon basket, thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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miffy
post Dec 29 2010, 10:05 PM
Post #72


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QUOTE(corenfa @ Dec 29 2010, 09:26 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 09:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(miffy @ Dec 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *

Does that mean it would be an argument between the landlord of my local and I?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Aargh! No! Between the landlord and me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

May I recommend "Between You and I" [sic] by James Cochrane?


Oh dear! I really am rubbish at this..
Is there any hope? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)


Not for I.. I's rubbish at this too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Cyrilla
post Dec 29 2010, 11:17 PM
Post #73


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QUOTE(TeacherNumberOne @ Dec 29 2010, 07:29 PM) *

I tried to reply to Czerny when he said he was irritated by pupe. but I can't seem to find where he said it now. What is a pupe?


It wasn't Czerny (who is a 'she') who said this but Bagpuss.

It's Bag's pet abbreviation for 'pupil'.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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JudithJ
post Dec 30 2010, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE(Czerny @ Dec 29 2010, 06:27 PM) *
QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Dec 29 2010, 05:42 PM) *

One of my pet hates is the missuse of 'can' and 'may' - 'can' as in being able to do something, and 'may' as in having permission to do something... e.g. 'can I sit down?' - well, you're quite able to sit down; what you really mean is 'may I sit down' - i.e. do I have your permission to sit down...

I think this comes under the category of grammar usage which, while strictly correct, sounds rather fussy and / or antiquated these days, particularly in spoken English. It's a bit like using the subjunctive.

It is not at all fussy!

My favourite reply when someone asks me if they can do something is stolen from a film: "You can, but you may not."
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Brynfan
post Dec 30 2010, 04:09 PM
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Envelope or Onvelope?

Is onvelope the posh version of envelope or the more common pronunciation? I'm in the envelope camp, unpretentious pleb that I am (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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