Breaking down a wall Options

[Gertrude]

Hello!

I am wondering how people are dealing with bars in a piece that seem to be impossible no matter how much it is broken into pieces or how slowly it is taken even hands separate.

I keep working at some bars lately every day for an hour and still I can't play them any faster than a snail's speed with two hands. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) It feels like trying to take down a wall with a spoon.

For now I "gave up" the hard work and am learning the rest of the piece but will keep spending time on the problem bars hoping that they will finally make sense to my brain - but I would like to hear how other people fight this problem!

[anacrusis]

I'd go from the back end of the wall - so rather than starting at the beginning of the difficult bit, I'd start at its end. I'm not a particularly good pianist, but the options of hands separately can work for some problems, just not all of them - it depends what the nature of the hurdle is which you're facing.

So - find the tricky bit. Play the bit just after it, the point from which you're comfortable again. Then add a few notes to that, the last notes of the section in which you stumble habitually. Once that is flowing nicely, add a few more from the beginning. This way you build up confidence, practising in only the right notes, not mistakes, and also remove the mental block which says eek the hard bit is coming up. I'd also suggest getting each stage of that learning up to speed before going on to extend it, so that you don't end up fixing only one tempo into your fingers and head.

[Sunrise]

I'd go from the back end of the wall - so rather than starting at the beginning of the difficult bit, I'd start at its end. I'm not a particularly good pianist, but the options of hands separately can work for some problems, just not all of them - it depends what the nature of the hurdle is which you're facing.

So - find the tricky bit. Play the bit just after it, the point from which you're comfortable again. Then add a few notes to that, the last notes of the section in which you stumble habitually. Once that is flowing nicely, add a few more from the beginning. This way you build up confidence, practising in only the right notes, not mistakes, and also remove the mental block which says eek the hard bit is coming up. I'd also suggest getting each stage of that learning up to speed before going on to extend it, so that you don't end up fixing only one tempo into your fingers and head.

Agreed - and only 2 notes/chords at a time if necessary until they are secure. Then add the one before etc. It does work.

[VH2]

I am wondering how people are dealing with bars in a piece that seem to be impossible no matter how much it is broken into pieces or how slowly it is taken even hands separate.

Two suggestions:

1. Find a piece or etude or exercise (or make one up) that presents a simpler form of the same technical problem.

2. Put the piece away for at least a couple of weeks (preferably longer) and work on something else. WHen you return to the piece there is a good chance that the problwm will no loger exist. It will have been solved by your subconscious mind.

[Gertrude]

I'd go from the back end of the wall - so rather than starting at the beginning of the difficult bit, I'd start at its end. I'm not a particularly good pianist, but the options of hands separately can work for some problems, just not all of them - it depends what the nature of the hurdle is which you're facing.

So - find the tricky bit. Play the bit just after it, the point from which you're comfortable again. Then add a few notes to that, the last notes of the section in which you stumble habitually. Once that is flowing nicely, add a few more from the beginning. This way you build up confidence, practising in only the right notes, not mistakes, and also remove the mental block which says eek the hard bit is coming up. I'd also suggest getting each stage of that learning up to speed before going on to extend it, so that you don't end up fixing only one tempo into your fingers and head.

Thank you so much! - the backward practice is something I should have thought of! I will try this this evening! :-)

[corenfa]

I do run into this - and when i do, I try to ask myself: *why exactly* are those particular bars a problem? Sometimes a bit of musical analysis helps me.

I've just had to learn the Arrival of the Queen of Sheba in a hurry - in two weeks, for a friend's wedding. There was one passage of four bars that I could get up to a certain speed (so I realise - not exactly the same as your problem - but I think the example still may be useful), and no further. It was as though the signals from brain to fingers just totally became rubbish. I wasn't even playing wrong notes that were wrong because my finger slipped one sideways - it completely disintegrated.

I got a bit fedup with this so I tried to see if I could work out what the problem was. In this case, it was because it was an orchestral reduction so the melody was going between the hands. I had not twigged that this was happening, and once I got that, I was able to "predict" what notes came next and it came together pretty quickly. It didn't mean that I didn't then have to practise it a lot some more, but that was what got me over that speed barrier.

I guess this shows me that for me anyway, there are two barriers I have to get over: One is "do I know what is happening musically", and the next is "can I make my fingers move in the right way to make it happen". Sometimes, I can skip the first to get to the second. I couldn't in this case.

I don't know if the same will hold for you, or if it does, which stage you're at, but perhaps it will be a useful different point of view (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Gertrude]

I guess this shows me that for me anyway, there are two barriers I have to get over: One is "do I know what is happening musically", and the next is "can I make my fingers move in the right way to make it happen". Sometimes, I can skip the first to get to the second. I couldn't in this case.

I don't know if the same will hold for you, or if it does, which stage you're at, but perhaps it will be a useful different point of view (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

One: No - I don't know what is happening musically - so maybe I need to sit down with these bars and figure it out! Maybe I should reduce these chords down to single notes to understand.

Two: Yes - slowly! So I think you are right with point One!

Thank you! :-)

[Tenor Viol]

I do run into this - and when i do, I try to ask myself: *why exactly* are those particular bars a problem? Sometimes a bit of musical analysis helps me.

I've just had to learn the Arrival of the Queen of Sheba in a hurry - in two weeks, for a friend's wedding. There was one passage of four bars that I could get up to a certain speed (so I realise - not exactly the same as your problem - but I think the example still may be useful), and no further. It was as though the signals from brain to fingers just totally became rubbish. I wasn't even playing wrong notes that were wrong because my finger slipped one sideways - it completely disintegrated.

I got a bit fedup with this so I tried to see if I could work out what the problem was. In this case, it was because it was an orchestral reduction so the melody was going between the hands. I had not twigged that this was happening, and once I got that, I was able to "predict" what notes came next and it came together pretty quickly. It didn't mean that I didn't then have to practise it a lot some more, but that was what got me over that speed barrier.

I guess this shows me that for me anyway, there are two barriers I have to get over: One is "do I know what is happening musically", and the next is "can I make my fingers move in the right way to make it happen". Sometimes, I can skip the first to get to the second. I couldn't in this case.

I don't know if the same will hold for you, or if it does, which stage you're at, but perhaps it will be a useful different point of view (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think it's a common problem with orchestral reductions - e.g. the piano part in a vocal score. Having spoken to a number of very good accompanists, they say that it is often not possible to play the notes written and that you have to be selective about what you include/exclude

[lottie]

I'd go from the back end of the wall - so rather than starting at the beginning of the difficult bit, I'd start at its end. I'm not a particularly good pianist, but the options of hands separately can work for some problems, just not all of them - it depends what the nature of the hurdle is which you're facing.

So - find the tricky bit. Play the bit just after it, the point from which you're comfortable again. Then add a few notes to that, the last notes of the section in which you stumble habitually. Once that is flowing nicely, add a few more from the beginning. This way you build up confidence, practising in only the right notes, not mistakes, and also remove the mental block which says eek the hard bit is coming up. I'd also suggest getting each stage of that learning up to speed before going on to extend it, so that you don't end up fixing only one tempo into your fingers and head.

I tried this the other day! It had never occurred to me before and it was incredibly effective!

[Gertrude]

I tried this the other day! It had never occurred to me before and it was incredibly effective!

I tried this last night and the result is that I now learned an extra 2 bars (which I thought whould be the hardest of all the problem area!) So now I continue to work backwards. Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)