The importance of a distinction Options

[FullofWind]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved? There will be musicians for whom this would be a mammoth task but if a child was capable of getting a comfortable pass, would it be better to wait up to two years until they were beyond distinction level? How are resits viewed by conservatoires if a child wishes to gain a distinction at a later date?

[VH2]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved?

If that were the case, then the pass mark should be set at distinction level, and we would scrap the ordinary pass and merit grades. There is no correct answer. It all depends on the student, their musical ambitions, and their reason for takling the exam.

I know that those few instrumentalists hoping to make careers as professional performers are entering a very competitive arena, but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

[barry-clari]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved? There will be musicians for whom this would be a mammoth task but if a child was capable of getting a comfortable pass, would it be better to wait up to two years until they were beyond distinction level? How are resits viewed by conservatoires if a child wishes to gain a distinction at a later date?

Conservatoires will judge a performer on what they do in audition as a general rule, not whether they have grade 8 distinction. Indeed, many entrants nowadays will be perfoming beyond this standard.

I find this 'get grade 8 distinction at all costs' attitude that is getting more prevalent terribly sad. Whatever level of grade 8 pass you get, it's still a fine, fine achievement. And it's interesting that it tends to be only the graded exams that suffer from this (music wise), not the diplomas...

[FullofWind]

but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. My question is not relating to comparing other students - I have no interest in the grade or result of other performers. My son does want to go to music college though and as we are not exam focused I just want to know if it's always better to wait for a distinction. I'm not quite sure how it would work though. Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

[Scooby Doo]

It all depends.....

Is there any pressing need to do the exam yet?

If I thought my child was capable of a distinction, I'd probably wait, unless they wanted to do the exam now. DD has 3x 8s, no distinctions, but she's happy and moving on with her music. Not interested in conservatoire and happily getting plenty of gigs. No-one ever asks about exams....

If your child is planning to apply to conservatoire etc, then no harm in aiming for D but the audition and the ability to play consistently at that standard, or beyond, will be more important. Not knocking a pass at any level, but selective processes will tend to favour higher marks over higher grades eg distinction at grade 6 arguably shows more promise than a pass at grade 8, if you see what I mean. That said, exams greatly over-rated as a benchmark of true achievement/ potential IMHO!

The sensible thing to do might be to continue exploring lots of different repertoire until he is ready to do the exam. Surely no one would suggest banging on at the same exam pieces for several years? Highly unlikely to achieve he desired result, anyway.

[Dulcet]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved? There will be musicians for whom this would be a mammoth task but if a child was capable of getting a comfortable pass, would it be better to wait up to two years until they were beyond distinction level? How are resits viewed by conservatoires if a child wishes to gain a distinction at a later date?

My take on this is that if a teacher knows that a child has great potential they shouldn't be pushing them through exams when they are only capable of playing the notes; they should be nurturing that potential and getting the very best out of the student. So, if I had a very bright pupil who could clearly get the notes under their belt and was rushing through more advanced pieces, but I suspected they were going to be REALLY REALLY good in a couple of years, I would not just push them in for an exam because they were learning the pieces - I would work on technique and musicality, and then enter them for the exam when they had developed their potential sufficiently so that they would get the mark that reflects their true ability.

No one ever needs to know about a resit; but I can't imagine any child putting up with having to do one when they passed the first time!

but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. My question is not relating to comparing other students - I have no interest in the grade or result of other performers. My son does want to go to music college though and as we are not exam focused I just want to know if it's always better to wait for a distinction. I'm not quite sure how it would work though. Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

No teacher would do that, surely? They would ensure that the all round playing ability was at distinction level - then the pieces would be too! I suppose I spent about 9 months maturing my G8 pieces then changed my mind in the summer hols and went for two different ones, which I got to distinction standard in a term.

As an example, DS1's piano teacher chooses pieces to work on technical aspects, then moves on when the aims have been achieved. DS might still get them out and play them, and he's often amazed at the fact that they are better even when they've had a rest, because his all round skills have improved.

[flobiano]

but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. My question is not relating to comparing other students - I have no interest in the grade or result of other performers. My son does want to go to music college though and as we are not exam focused I just want to know if it's always better to wait for a distinction. I'm not quite sure how it would work though. Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

Yes that would be very boring and very counter productive I think. If he wanted to wait then I would hope his teacher would put the exam pieces aside and work on different reportoire to raise the general standard of his playing. The only importance of a distinction at Grade 8 is the value you personally place on it. Conservatoires are uninterested in your exam results and base their decision on auditions. After all does a Grade 8 distinction at age 16 mean that you are a better player than someone who had a good solid pass at age 14? No of course not, and neither of them predicts how good a player you will be at age 18 and the Consevartoires are fully aware of that (many of them being ABRSM examiners themselves!).

[Listener]

S/he doesn't have to stick to Grade 8 level pieces until he takes Grade 8. You said s/he's not exam focused so hopefully has a teacher with a similar attitude. S/he can work on technique and improving playing - studies and more difficult pieces, set suitable goals, whole concertos and so on - and take the exam when it suits him/her - or not at all. Explore the repetopire, look for performance opps. Sound more fun than whacking through grades apart from anything else!

The only things to beware: (i) that 'Grade 8' doesn't become a larger and larger issue because of a perception that the mark should be higher and higher the longer s/he leaves it, (ii) the perception of other students if/when s/he finally gets to do it ("Grade 8? How sweet!"). Of course s/he could get it out of the way, not worry about the result, and use the diploma system to advance his/her playing; once you have a diploma no one is very worried about a grade results (unless you've done spectacularly in which case you keep it in your CV for ever!), but if s/he's not exam oriented that wouldn't be ideal.

[Oops, lots of good advice posted while typing this]

[Claudia's Mum]

All I can say is that, of the children we know, none has taken grade 8 until they are comfortably past the necessary standard so that a distinction is a given and requires little effort because they are already way past the standard.

I think - I could be wrong - that grade 8 is the exam that has the highest proportion of distinctions?

Even when I was at school many years ago, people tended to wait for several years before doing grade 8. I remember our music scholars didn't take it until they were in the sixth form.

Whether it is important to get a distinction, I would say not for the reasons already discussed above. But people like to get a distinction at grade 8.

[Seer_Green]

Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

It would bore anyone! I think that this misses the point though. Whether someone plays at distinction level isn't necessarily because they spend a long time and put a lof of effort into learning the exam pieces. It's surely dependent on the work and prep which has gone in before that on a whole host of other things - pieces, scales, technique, musicianship etc. There's a subtle difference between someone having to learn the exam pieces because they're not quite at that standard, and someone learning them who's already reached that standard. The latter may have spent longer on other things, but there's likely to have been more variety; the former is likely to have to spend more time on the exam pieces, hence, boredom sets in.

I'm pretty sure that this 'quest' for distinctions is a relatively new thing. When I was at school, we were all sufficiently pleased to pass - after all, the past mark is considerably higher than most exams these days (often 40%) - if the average mark is still around 117, that's 78% and to my mind, that's a superb result in itself. I didn't get a merit until Grade 5, and I only passed Grade 8. I always worked to do the best I could, but I never set out to 'try' and get a merit or a distinction. We always considered these to be a bonus, particularly at the higher grades. There are a lot of things which make someone a 'distinction candidate', and a good proportion of these are not related to playing the pieces.

I agree with others that for music college entry, whether he's got a piece of paper which says 'Grade 8 with distinction' will be largely irrelevant. Successful entry to music college is about a lot more than just performing excellence on one instrument.

[Dulcet]

All I can say is that, of the children we know, none has taken grade 8 until they are comfortably past the necessary standard so that a distinction is a given and requires little effort because they are already way past the standard.

I think - I could be wrong - that grade 8 is the exam that has the highest proportion of distinctions?

Even when I was at school many years ago, people tended to wait for several years before doing grade 8. I remember our music scholars didn't take it until they were in the sixth form.

Whether it is important to get a distinction, I would say not for the reasons already discussed above. But people like to get a distinction at grade 8.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[FullofWind]

Lots of very good responses, thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We are currently facing some teacher issues. Not with a teacher but trying to organise a regular one over the next 1/2 years - long story. If he continues to work and practice in the way he is doing then he could be grade 8 pass level by the summer of next year and if we still haven't got a regular teacher by then I wondered if he should sit it or leave it. He really isn't exam oriented but without a goal, other than local music groups, he may lose focus.

[Susie]

He could always sit the exam and see how it went. It would be useful experience and good to have a relatively short term goal.

If your son is aiming for conservatoire application, then I would say that you need to be looking for a good teacher with whom he can build a good relationship and who can support him in his aim.

[Claudia's Mum]

Lots of very good responses, thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We are currently facing some teacher issues. Not with a teacher but trying to organise a regular one over the next 1/2 years - long story. If he continues to work and practice in the way he is doing then he could be grade 8 pass level by the summer of next year and if we still haven't got a regular teacher by then I wondered if he should sit it or leave it. He really isn't exam oriented but without a goal, other than local music groups, he may lose focus.

I would say leave it but find him other goals such as performances, festivals, auditions. Or go back and do the grade below if he hasn't done it yet but aim for a really high mark in the 140s. The teacher will advise in any case when you find one.

[VH2]

but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. My question is not relating to comparing other students - I have no interest in the grade or result of other performers. My son does want to go to music college though and as we are not exam focused I just want to know if it's always better to wait for a distinction. I'm not quite sure how it would work though. Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

The term "better" is what confused me. It is a relative term, not an absoute. Better FOR what or better THAN what.

But now it is clear. What you are asking is, does a distinction at Grade 8 improve your son's chances of geting into music college? Well it is unlikely to do any harm!

Whether it will really improve his chances of getting into a music college or conservatoire depends on the policy of the colleges that he intends to apply to. The few conservatoires that I know well do not require you to have passed ANY grade exam. They go entirely on the audition and interview. Others may differ.