Grade 5, Does result affect future opportunities? Options

[ViolaMum]

Well the latest is that Teach has told DS today that noone can do Grade 5 in a term, so it's a no for July and a yes for December - that'll be fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

He also has DS playing the same 3 Grade 5 pieces and a 3 octave scale. I can't believe that he would want him to play the same 3 pieces for the next 7 months, so will have to check his plans. Hopefully this time will allow DS to increase his rep.

Also made the mistake of going on the 11+ website today and don't feel so confident about DS' success in the Tiffin exam either.

As we say in Yorkshire - "I'm reyt fed up". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[notmusimum]

Well the latest is that Teach has told DS today that noone can do Grade 5 in a term, so it's a no for July and a yes for December - that'll be fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

He also has DS playing the same 3 Grade 5 pieces and a 3 octave scale. I can't believe that he would want him to play the same 3 pieces for the next 7 months, so will have to check his plans. Hopefully this time will allow DS to increase his rep.

Also made the mistake of going on the 11+ website today and don't feel so confident about DS' success in the Tiffin exam either.

As we say in Yorkshire - "I'm reyt fed up". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I think I'd have a talk with the teacher, not to get him to change his mind over the exam but to find out how he's going to handle the whole situation. Make sure he has some repertoire plans, it's unrealistic to expect your son to play the G5 pieces for 7 months. I'd be asking about any weak areas of his playing and getting exercises or whatever to improve them and leaving the pieces alone for a while. The teacher may well be thinking along the lines of missing a grade or two and entering at the appropriate level once your son has G5 theory. I do think you need to know though.

[ViolaMum]

I think I'd have a talk with the teacher, not to get him to change his mind over the exam but to find out how he's going to handle the whole situation. Make sure he has some repertoire plans, it's unrealistic to expect your son to play the G5 pieces for 7 months. I'd be asking about any weak areas of his playing and getting exercises or whatever to improve them and leaving the pieces alone for a while. The teacher may well be thinking along the lines of missing a grade or two and entering at the appropriate level once your son has G5 theory. I do think you need to know though.

Thanks NMM,

Teach says he'll be in touch later, so you've given me some good ideas of how to handle it.

DS refuses to skip grades, so it's not really an option. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

[MusicalNitWit]

Well, in theory, mine is doing it in a term so I disagree - unless he fails of course.

This may be the opportunity to get grade 5 theory under your belts and potentially start working towards grade 6 and the alto clef over the long holidays! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[tonedeafmum]

Well the latest is that Teach has told DS today that noone can do Grade 5 in a term, so it's a no for July and a yes for December - that'll be fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

He also has DS playing the same 3 Grade 5 pieces and a 3 octave scale. I can't believe that he would want him to play the same 3 pieces for the next 7 months, so will have to check his plans. Hopefully this time will allow DS to increase his rep.

Also made the mistake of going on the 11+ website today and don't feel so confident about DS' success in the Tiffin exam either.

As we say in Yorkshire - "I'm reyt fed up". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm sorry things aren't working out the way you'd hoped. I think you're right - the important thing is that your poor son doesn't get stuck with the same handful of pieces indefinitely. It doesn't really matter in the long term what year he takes what exam (Daughter was shocked to discover that her violin teacher hadn't taken her Grade 4 until she was 14 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) but he musn't get bored, and he needs to know that he's making progress. Have a word with the teacher (preferably when Violason isn't around) and see what you can cook up.

The 11 plus is grim and Tiffin is tough - but a full complement of kids do get in every year and there's no reason to suppose your lad can't be one of them. The 11 + forum is good for a laugh as well - some of the time - but really .... if folks here think they've got problems with pushy parents .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Claudia's Mum]

Claudia's school always told us that grade 5 was the one exam that you had to have a distinction for - that that was some kind of benchmark number - and that it was worth delaying the exam to make sure that result was attainable.

It doesn't matter if you don't if you then prove yourself in an audition by playing at that standard but if you don't get distinction in the exam then you probably aren't distinction standard so you would probably be better off saying you are grade 4 and playing really well at that level than saying you are grade 5 and not being quite at that stage yet.

We were also told that for violin you needed to have done grade 5 by age 10 but for other instruments it is expected that you do them later. But the length of time the child has been playing is also taken into account.

As for pieces, if they are ready then I am sure the teacher will ask that they are put away and retrieved nearer the time. We are doing the same with piano. Claudia is ready for the exam but we won't be doing it until November so the teacher asked her to stop playing them altogether and move onto other things.

Having said all of that, and has been mentioned above, your exam result only counts until the next one so if you don't get distinction at grade 5 then it will be wiped out by a distinction in grade 6.

[MusicalNitWit]

I agree in part with your point Claudia's Mum but then a student can have a bad day at the audition, a new reed as the best one broke the night before (eek), or a harsh examiner. Even if DS only gets a pass I know he is now grade 5 level because every new grade 5 piece he has looked at in the last couple of weeks he is managing to play the notes and rhythm correctly within a couple of days. I may be setting myself up for a fall but I would be surprised if he didn't get strong marks in his pieces and it's not that he is not capable of grade 5 level scales, sight-reading etc it's just that there has been no focus on them. Had he been drip-fed these techniques and scales during each lesson then I am convinced he would have been ready. When I think about it, he couldn't even get C major (2 octaves) right in December and now he can play Ab major at good speed and accurately.

Before we had even thought about the RCM we were already aware that the only opportunities to sit exams was in the summer term because of choir commitments in the other terms. Of course when I made that decision I was expecting DS to sit grade 4 next summer, not grade 5 this summer! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Interestingly, many of the senior schools are now ditching scales in auditions in favour of pieces and sight-reading only as they feel that although it improves speed and dexterity, the most I important thing is being able to play pieces with musicality.

[tonedeafmum]

Claudia's school always told us that grade 5 was the one exam that you had to have a distinction for - that that was some kind of benchmark number - and that it was worth delaying the exam to make sure that result was attainable.

It doesn't matter if you don't if you then prove yourself in an audition by playing at that standard but if you don't get distinction in the exam then you probably aren't distinction standard so you would probably be better off saying you are grade 4 and playing really well at that level than saying you are grade 5 and not being quite at that stage yet.

We were also told that for violin you needed to have done grade 5 by age 10 but for other instruments it is expected that you do them later. But the length of time the child has been playing is also taken into account.

As for pieces, if they are ready then I am sure the teacher will ask that they are put away and retrieved nearer the time. We are doing the same with piano. Claudia is ready for the exam but we won't be doing it until November so the teacher asked her to stop playing them altogether and move onto other things.

Having said all of that, and has been mentioned above, your exam result only counts until the next one so if you don't get distinction at grade 5 then it will be wiped out by a distinction in grade 6.

Um ... you need to have done Grade 5 violin by 10 or what ..? I think maybe you need to clarify that. Quite bemused non musical mother here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[barncottagecat]

The only exam where it really truly honestly matters about your exam grading is Grade 8 surely, and the reason being that a distinction at Grade 8 is worth 1/2 an A level, in terms of UCAS points (for some courses)? But despite that I still wouldn't rush it.

Retrospect is a great ally, but doing our G5 in a term was just horrendous and I really put my daughter through it to help her get up to standard to get that distinction, which she managed, just, but it almost put her off completely! I also noticed that about 3 months after her exam, she was then able to actually properly manage her exam pieces (she'd kept them going as performance pieces), so she really hadn't been ready. We took an extra term for G7 last year and didn't regret it. Now doing the same for G8 - waiting till Christmas.

Don't be too disheartened Viola mum - going into an exam under prepared is a horrid feeling. - expanding repertoire during this time is a fantastic idea, but use the time to really concentrate on scales sight reading and aural so he can go into his exam in November feeing supremely confident. He will still be a grade 5 standard player, and if he does it in November he will still be able to write it on his school application form.

[MusicalNitWit]

Just playing devil advocate here but you could always enter him privately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[tonedeafmum]

Just playing devil advocate here but you could always enter him privately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Don't know if it's a case of 'great minds think alike' or 'fools seldom differ' but I had been wondering about that -would mean jumping on the back of someone else's Visit though (Session B being ready to roll - no date yet for Daughter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piano.gif) ) - and finding an accompanist etc. Probably not worth the hassle - but thought I'd better 'fess up that MNW isn't the only (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa.gif) around (yes - I know it's Father Christmas but I'm hopeless at finding emoticons and it's an anagram. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

[sbhoa]

Just playing devil advocate here but you could always enter him privately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Except that it could cause problems with the teacher.
It may appear as though your are not trusting their judgement.
If you feel strongly about an earlier exam best to discuss it properly.

[ViolaMum]

Once again thanks for all your words of wisdom (is that the right word?!!!). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Feeling much happier today. Had a really lovely email from Teach last night (brought a tear to my eye) which explained why he thought July wasn't the best option. He said main reason was that DS had done so well this far and to drop the standard would be an injustice to his playing and his abilities. He also said what he wanted to teach DS over the next few months. He offered to find an exam center where DS could do the exam in early Autumn and he could enter him privately (not through the Trust). He ended by saying that DS was an exceptional pupil and he hoped that DS wasn't too disappointed. Aaawwww! Isn't it nice when people say lovely things about your DCs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

DS is disappointed but also a bit relieved! He's worked so hard since last February and not had a break from exams, so less pressure could be a good thing. Although he still has the pressure of Tiffin work! I'm starting to wonder whether we should just send him to the better of our local schools (if he could get in) where the Trust provides music teachers and where he could continue with Teach! I think we've dropped on a really nice genuine teacher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Of course having come this far - we've got to give DS the best chance at the school he wants to go to! But after being desperate for him to get into Tiffin, I think I've finally adopted DS' laid back approach to it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I don't know what's the matter with me today. Maybe the adrenalin of yesterday has changed me into some normal person! Then again..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[tonedeafmum]

Once again thanks for all your words of wisdom (is that the right word?!!!). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Feeling much happier today. Had a really lovely email from Teach last night (brought a tear to my eye) which explained why he thought July wasn't the best option. He said main reason was that DS had done so well this far and to drop the standard would be an injustice to his playing and his abilities. He also said what he wanted to teach DS over the next few months. He offered to find an exam center where DS could do the exam in early Autumn and he could enter him privately (not through the Trust). He ended by saying that DS was an exceptional pupil and he hoped that DS wasn't too disappointed. Aaawwww! Isn't it nice when people say lovely things about your DCs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

DS is disappointed but also a bit relieved! He's worked so hard since last February and not had a break from exams, so less pressure could be a good thing. Although he still has the pressure of Tiffin work! I'm starting to wonder whether we should just send him to the better of our local schools (if he could get in) where the Trust provides music teachers and where he could continue with Teach! I think we've dropped on a really nice genuine teacher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Of course having come this far - we've got to give DS the best chance at the school he wants to go to! But after being desperate for him to get into Tiffin, I think I've finally adopted DS' laid back approach to it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I don't know what's the matter with me today. Maybe the adrenalin of yesterday has changed me into some normal person! Then again..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's great. You've definitely got a really caring and committed teacher there and yes, that can be a factor in choosing your back up plan school for your son. Daughter will be continuing with all her same music teachers when she goes to Secondary School after the summer and I know that will make the transition easier for her. So lovely to hear your son's talents appreciated. We've been appreciating him on forum for a long time - he's obviously got real talent and works hard as well. Very pleased for you all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)

[BerkshireMum]

Once again thanks for all your words of wisdom (is that the right word?!!!). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Feeling much happier today. Had a really lovely email from Teach last night (brought a tear to my eye) which explained why he thought July wasn't the best option. He said main reason was that DS had done so well this far and to drop the standard would be an injustice to his playing and his abilities. He also said what he wanted to teach DS over the next few months. He offered to find an exam center where DS could do the exam in early Autumn and he could enter him privately (not through the Trust). He ended by saying that DS was an exceptional pupil and he hoped that DS wasn't too disappointed. Aaawwww! Isn't it nice when people say lovely things about your DCs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

DS is disappointed but also a bit relieved! He's worked so hard since last February and not had a break from exams, so less pressure could be a good thing. Although he still has the pressure of Tiffin work! I'm starting to wonder whether we should just send him to the better of our local schools (if he could get in) where the Trust provides music teachers and where he could continue with Teach! I think we've dropped on a really nice genuine teacher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Of course having come this far - we've got to give DS the best chance at the school he wants to go to! But after being desperate for him to get into Tiffin, I think I've finally adopted DS' laid back approach to it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I don't know what's the matter with me today. Maybe the adrenalin of yesterday has changed me into some normal person! Then again..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Interesting that your son is relieved - I think this shows that leaving the exam to the Autumn term is the best thing. I also think he's right in his approach to schools. He should try for Tiffin if it's what he'd (and you'd) like, but given the ratio of applicants to places, unless he's a genius getting a place is uncertain, so he is wise to be laid back about it.

If Tiffin is the right school for your boy, he will get in. On the other hand, if he struggles to do the entrance exam, he would find it very hard to keep up at that school anyway, and it's never nice to be towards the bottom of the class. Children's self-estem is higher near the top of the class in an academically poorer school, which can offset any losses in terms of exam results. I'd keep a weather eye on alternatives to Tiffin just in case.