Yamaha Pianos - P Series, U Series And Others! Options

[Stephen.Betts]

I recently started a one year lease on a brand new Yamaha P116-SG silent piano. I have to admit to being disappointed with the instrument - not appreciating the difference between a slightly worn in show room model and a brand new one. I am basically stuck with it until December, when I have the option to purchase. I would value your opinions on what might be a better option for me.

My main dislike is the "stiff" keyboard - I find it makes it very difficult to play piano, let alone pianissimo, compared to some older instruments I play on occassionally. I am only grade 4 at the moment, so you could argue that I could learn on any 'old banger' of an instrument, however for me the quality is important and I can hear the difference between instruments easily and really feel that I am in more control when playing older, softer touch instruments which enable me to play more expressively.

My research has also suggested that a stiff mechanism for a beginner may actually be a good thing! - developing strength of fingers and meaning you are never phased by different pianos, as they are generally of a softer touch and not vice-versa!

In addition, as I live in an apartment, the silent functionality is important to me (I use it about 40% in silent mode)

I see my options as:

1. Do nothing, buy the instrument in December and accept that the stiff mechanism will soften with age
2. Get advice of technician on possibly having it re-regulated (would have to buy it to do that) and been told anecdotally that this may not be very succesful in a new piano
3. Return and get a new U-series silent instead
4. Return and get a second hand U-series instead (and probably have to retrofit silent functionality).
5. Get something totally different!

Budget - could go up to £7/8k (hence new silent U-series) but would prefer to spend less to keep the other half happy! Has to be upright for space reasons.

Any opinions/advice greatly received.

[Mini_mo]

I recently started a one year lease on a brand new Yamaha P116-SG silent piano. I have to admit to being disappointed with the instrument - not appreciating the difference between a slightly worn in show room model and a brand new one. I am basically stuck with it until December, when I have the option to purchase. I would value your opinions on what might be a better option for me.

My main dislike is the "stiff" keyboard - I find it makes it very difficult to play piano, let alone pianissimo, compared to some older instruments I play on occassionally. I am only grade 4 at the moment, so you could argue that I could learn on any 'old banger' of an instrument, however for me the quality is important and I can hear the difference between instruments easily and really feel that I am in more control when playing older, softer touch instruments which enable me to play more expressively.

My research has also suggested that a stiff mechanism for a beginner may actually be a good thing! - developing strength of fingers and meaning you are never phased by different pianos, as they are generally of a softer touch and not vice-versa!

In addition, as I live in an apartment, the silent functionality is important to me (I use it about 40% in silent mode)

I see my options as:

1. Do nothing, buy the instrument in December and accept that the stiff mechanism will soften with age
2. Get advice of technician on possibly having it re-regulated (would have to buy it to do that) and been told anecdotally that this may not be very succesful in a new piano
3. Return and get a new U-series silent instead
4. Return and get a second hand U-series instead (and probably have to retrofit silent functionality).
5. Get something totally different!

Budget - could go up to £7/8k (hence new silent U-series) but would prefer to spend less to keep the other half happy! Has to be upright for space reasons.

Any opinions/advice greatly received.

I have an 11 year old U1 with silent system factory fitted. And I agree the keyboard is much stiffer than most pianos I play but also very crisp (which I love) so when I play on very worn pianos it causes me havoc!

If you get a new U1, you may end up with the same issue you currently have as I understand new pianos take a while to settle in and your action may be stiffer than a worn one. I really wouldn't have a silent system retro fitted, unless someone has had this done and can approve of it. As I understand there are 2 options, the Gabor which is £800 ish but is not optical and makes the key action even stiffer, or the piano disc system, which is optical but around £1800!!! On my silent U1, when in silent mode the action is slightly lighter as the metal bar which stops the hammer striking means they have less distance to travel. I thought I was imagining this at first.

I bought my 2nd hand U1 for the same price as a non silent system, so in effect you get it for free, but then you have to risk the electronic parts possibly breaking down. I also contacted a Yamaha engineer before the MK plant closed down and he gave me an idea on spare parts for the silent CPU to replace, £200 being the most expensive part. Mind you I had a 1 year guarantee on the silent bit and 5 years on the piano.

One thing I would say on a second hand U1, is that if you use the silent mode loads, the sampling has come on leaps and bounds since mine, so a newer or brand new U1 will have a much better silent sound, plus you will be able to record through a digital output whereas I cannot on mine.

I love my U1 and am really pleased (EDIT When it is in tune). I spent £3500 on mine and it is 11 years old so for your budget you could probably get one a few years old. The more I play lots of different pianos in various music shops, the more it confirms that I love the sound of the U1 (albeit very bright which some hate). I really don't like the sound of the B series. The difference between a 10 year old U1 and a 20 year old is very noticeable aswell, the build quality is so much better.

One word of warning and please don't let me put you off. I have a big problem with mine staying in tune. It is being investigated by the dealer and others. I have a replacement piano arriving any day, which has been sourced by them. It may be the piano, but it may be the environment. Mine is a Japanese import. So you might be better off getting one made for the UK market. In all the music shops I have been in so far I have not played a U1 that feels the same and sounds the same, they are all so different!

If you need any more advice please PM me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[fsharpminor]

Stephen, just out of interest , when you say 'silent' mode is it completely silent or just muted so it plays 'pp' all the time. I bought my Rogers piano (later they were bought by Yamaha and shut down) in 1977 , when I had a small baby (now a Gr8 pianist and violinist), and it had a lever inside the top which made it sound all 'pp'. I think it was called a Celeste (! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) It was useful at the time, but of course have no need for it now.
Dont know if you can get pianos with these now.

[iamdjoc]

Hi Stephen,

I went through a similar thing myself a year ago. I wanted to change my Kawai K6 for a Yamaha U series because my teacher had one and I think they're a good 'standard' piano and probably good for a learner. I tried out some second-hand ones and came to the conclusion that I wasn't experienced enough to chose one. The quality of sound and keyboard varied hugely between different pianos. Some had slightly loose keyboards and different action.

I ended coming to this conclusion : This piano is going to be with me for life and I play for 2-3 hours a day, so
I may as well get something that's new and 100% perfect ... so i borrowed some cash and splashed out on a new U3 Silent. I'm happier with it than words can describe ;-)

I lost quite a bit of cash changing pianos and I wish I had just bought the U3 to start with. My advice is to buy a new one if you're certain you'll keep up the playing. It makes it so much easier to chose one too.

If you have the cash, don't settle for second best ... you might regret it.

Dave.

[Stephen.Betts]

Stephen, just out of interest , when you say 'silent' mode is it completely silent or just muted so it plays 'pp' all the time. I bought my Rogers piano (later they were bought by Yamaha and shut down) in 1977 , when I had a small baby (now a Gr8 pianist and violinist), and it had a lever inside the top which made it sound all 'pp'. I think it was called a Celeste (! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) It was useful at the time, but of course have no need for it now.
Dont know if you can get pianos with these now.

Completely silent - on my Yamaha P116 silent pressing the centre pedal engages a bar which stops the hammers hitting the strings. You then switch on a little box of tricks which gives you a sampled sound via ear phones (a la Clavinova) thanks to a strip of optical sensors hidden under the keyboard.

I know some modern yamaha upright models if you don't have silent option (which costs extra) they usually have a 'celeste' pedal as the middle pedal which drops a piece of felt in front of the hammers to soften the sound. I say usually, because I think the higher end models actually have a Sostenuto pedal in the middle, and use an extra lever to engage the silent option (if installed).

[fsharpminor]

I know some modern yamaha upright models if you don't have silent option (which costs extra) they usually have a 'celeste' pedal as the middle pedal which drops a piece of felt in front of the hammers to soften the sound. I say usually, because I think the higher end models actually have a Sostenuto pedal in the middle, and use an extra lever to engage the silent option (if installed).

Yes, mines the piece of felt type, but I just open the lid and move a lever to activate it.

[John451]

Hi iamdjoc.

I wanted to change my Kawai K6 for a Yamaha U series because my teacher had one and I think they're a good 'standard' piano and probably good for a learner.

I had the impression that the Kawai K6 is a very good piano - did you find that wasn't the case?

[pianoman1234]

Well - I would prefer the Yamaha Clavinova CLP - I bought it at www.klaviererfolg.de and I am quite happy. That is a german site. Greetings

[Mad Tom]

My main practice pianos at the practice rooms where I do most practice are Yamaha P114s, U1s, U3s, C2s and C3s, with occasional use of a C5.

The U1s and U3s are nice pianos with a pleasant action that I find light in comparison to most grand pianos, but one that is even and controllable, and with an attractive tone quality (not everyone likes it ... it is a personal thing) that is bright but not harsh. They hold their tune quite well and seem capable of withstanding heavy use. U1 and U3 feel almost identical to play, but the U3 has a richer bass, which sustains better.

Regarding the silent system, I would not consider anything other than a genuine Yamaha system. A couple of friends have U1's with after-fit systems and by comparison with Yamaha's own they are very poor, tinny in sound, and the way the volume varies with the touch bears no relationship to the same piano played acoustically.

By contrast to the U1 and U3 the P114s almost invariably have a very uneven action, where some notes are heavy, and others unduly light, so it is almost impossible to develop any precise control of volume, or even to play a scale or phrase evenly. The basic tone sounds very harsh, even allowing for the unavoidable evenness. They go out of tune very quickly. The U-upright's are in a different class.

There are so many good, lightly-used, second-hand pianos about that I don't see the point of buying new. You just have to be sure that you don't get something that has been hammered for 10 hours every day in a music school, or by a serious professional.

With your budget you could also afford a second hand C1 or C2, or maybe even a C3 (or equivalents from other makers) and if you have the room it is worth considering. The action of a grand is subtly different in feel to an upright, the 'catch' point with the note part-depressed allows you to play trills and repeats faster and clearer than on an upright, the dampers act faster, the controllable dynamic range of a grand is wider (you can play it both more quietly and more loudly) you have a genuine Una Corda pedal, probably a sostenuto pedal ... even little things like the better position of the music stand are a help. It also seems that manufacturer's take more care in the materials and construction of their grands resulting in rather more durable instruments.

[andante]

We have a Kawai K6, which we are very happy with. It has the three normal pedals and a lever under the keyboard which drops a piece of felt in (as described above to muffle it for practice) We tried the Yamahas, and preferred the tone of the Kawai. It's a matter of personal preference. If you're buying a piano try them out and see which you like, and make sure you get the one you try and not another of the same model, as they differ from one to the next in how they are set up.