The importance of a distinction Options

[andante]

I would leave it. My daughter got a high merit in her grade 8 on her first instrument, and distinctions in grade 8 on her other two instruments. Every time she applies for something that asks for grade 8 distinction or equivalent she has to get a letter of support from her teacher to prove that she is this level.

[Ayshah]

Looking at your queries I would say if the application to a conservatoire is the goal, then you should be focussing your energy on finding a teacher who will prepare him for a successsful audition to same. the question that you should ask the potential teacher, "can you assist with preparing my son for successful entry to a conservatoire?"

However taking a Grade 8 exam can be quite a good experience and gaining a distinction is very good for moral. No one wants to be playing the same pieces over a lengthy period of time, so I am not in favor of delaying entry just to et the distinition. In my case the girls got the distictions in G8, but they practised like mad in the last month knowing thats what they wanted.

But do remember the conservatoire auditions ask for Grade 8 standard not a Grace 8 distintion on paper.

[Seer_Green]

Looking at your queries I would say if the application to a conservatoire is the goal, then you should be focussing your energy on finding a teacher who will prepare him for a successsful audition to same.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
I'm sorry to hear you're having teacher trouble at the moment, but I think that getting the right teacher now is probably more important than any considerations about standards, exams, distinctions etc. My experience is that these days, most conservatoire entrants are playing easily beyond Grade 8 distinction standard anyway.

[Listener]

but does competition in musical performance ("X got a distinction, Y "" only" achieved a pass") really have to be introduced so early, for everyone??

Sadly, and however much we wish it were otherwise, the answer today seems to be 'yes'.

If you are lucky enough to have a child who is oblivious to grades, results, ranking and peer competition, cherish them. If you're like the rest of us, get ready to catch them when they occasionally slip off the high wire.

[Bagpuss]

I'm with Baz here - conservatoires aren't interested particularly in the route in, they will just judge on what they hear on the day of the audition. More universities are now asking for Grade 8 as a prerequisite but the conservatoires will expect performance far beyond that.

The majority of pieces set for the higher grades are bog-standard repertoire tunes so why not learn the lot then take your pick when it is TIME for Grade 8? To the OP - get the teacher thing sorted soon because with them onside it will help give your offspring structure and focus.

Good luck.

Bagpuss x

[Dulcet]

The majority of pieces set for the higher grades are bog-standard repertoire tunes so why not learn the lot then take your pick when it is TIME for Grade 8?

Absolutely. I certainly learnt a lot of repertoire on my way to G8 and carried on learning more as I went past it!

[anacrusis]

Is it not perfectly possible to pass a high grade, without ever having reached a distinction level at a lower one first? I think so...

I've always thought of distinction as carrying a something extra, maybe something that some candidates might never achieve even if sitting the exam two levels down, to do with stagecraft, presentation, and a meticulousness which is not necessarily everyone's forte. Sure, a good teacher might well get more candidates performing in that particular way, but it's not the only thing marking out a good teacher, or indeed a good candidate.....nor is it always the thing which will necessarily make such a good musician, either. I've seen some distinction level performances put out by what might politely be called little automatons - all very precise and neat and tidy, and just_not_there, somehow, not inspiring. Likewise I know musicians who have never done grades, because the format of music exams has not suited their style of learning and playing, and who are amazingly musical and alive and fun to hear despite never having put their performances through that particular hoop.

In terms though of ambitious parent seeking a particular path for a child - there are pros and cons to either approach, do the exam early and one learns from the processs, though the risk is a knock to confidence if it's too early: or do the exam late, and one gets the boost of a better result (unless of course one has set one's heart on a distinction which doesn't arise despite that), but at the risk of boredom. Ultimately it's one I think the candidate ought to have a say in, as long as it's an informed choice.

[notmusimum]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved? There will be musicians for whom this would be a mammoth task but if a child was capable of getting a comfortable pass, would it be better to wait up to two years until they were beyond distinction level? How are resits viewed by conservatoires if a child wishes to gain a distinction at a later date?

On answer to first part even being distinction standard won't gaurantee it on the day. Youngest got Merit for Grade 8 Recorder because the examiner wanted a wide dynamic range (he was a singer) and obviously didn't realise that recorders don't do dynamics to that extent. Now a different examiner..... the point is that on the day you never know how it will go. With AB she only played Treble so we waited and she took a different board only on Descant. The mark sheet of the first exam tells it's own story so I wouldn't hesitate to submit it for funding. There is so much water under the bridge now that it doesn't really matter.

My advice would be to wait and take the exam when the child was as well prepared or as comfortable as possible without delaying too long that they are bored.

I can tell you that Junior Conservatoire students are probably more likely to resit an exam to get a higher result than any other type of student. I don't think it would matter one way or the other and there is nothing ot say you have to tell them.

Is it not perfectly possible to pass a high grade, without ever having reached a distinction level at a lower one first? I think so...

Very true! Daughter got Distinction for Grade 6 Flute, pass for Grade 7 (all candidates on special visit got passes) and Distinction at Grade 8.

Conservatoires will judge a performer on what they do in audition as a general rule, not whether they have grade 8 distinction. Indeed, many entrants nowadays will be perfoming beyond this standard.

This is what we've been assured is the case and many auditionees will be beyond Grade 8 it won't mean an automatic place either.

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. My question is not relating to comparing other students - I have no interest in the grade or result of other performers. My son does want to go to music college though and as we are not exam focused I just want to know if it's always better to wait for a distinction. I'm not quite sure how it would work though. Would he continue to play the same pieces for years until they were distinction level? This would bore him.

Looking back I certainly view things differently. I wouldn't rush Grade 8 if there was no need and you weren't in a competitive environment. Nor would I start working on exam pieces and we have encountered a similar mindset over audition pieces where keeping them too long could make them stale. What I would do explore as much repertoire as possible, perfecting resting and then working on again as technical skills develop.

Get a really good teacher whatever the cost and trust them particularly as auditions approach.

Now how do I stop my horror playing a piece for audition that's far too hard..........

Any typos are down to the awful high notes coming from a saxophone, waiting for neighbours to complain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Listener]

In terms though of ambitious parent seeking a particular path for a child -

Ooooo, please, is that fair? I don't read it in the OP's question - she said her CHILD wanted to go to music college. One of mine at that age announced she wanted to go to the Royal Ballet School; they get these ideas. All a parent wants to do - given it's not an idea that's completely unrealistic - is make sure the door isn't locked before opens. (In a long and otherwise helpful post, maybe people will missed the above quote and I am doing a disservice by highlighting it... if so, sorry...)

[notmusimum]

In terms though of ambitious parent seeking a particular path for a child -

Ooooo, please, is that fair? I don't read it in the OP's question - she said her CHILD wanted to go to music college. One of mine at that age announced she wanted to go to the Royal Ballet School; they get these ideas. All a parent wants to do - given it's not an idea that's completely unrealistic - is make sure the door isn't locked before opens. (In a long and otherwise helpful post, maybe people will missed the above quote and I am doing a disservice by highlighting it... if so, sorry...)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Mine wanted to be a musician aged 10 and we've always kept that door open without any pressure for it to actually happen. She would have been completely free to change her mind at any point - even now. That's the reason why I joined this forum in the first place as I had no idea how to deal with that desire and I learnt what was needed for Conservatoire or Uni.

I do understand why people assume it's the parent but that doesn't make it always the case. I can remember lots of time in the past that threads were started by people not having the right qualifications to study music and expressing disappointment. I encouraged daughter to get the right qualifications, that I won't deny, but we had 8 years to do it in.

[Listener]

In terms though of ambitious parent seeking a particular path for a child -

Ooooo, please, is that fair? I don't read it in the OP's question - she said her CHILD wanted to go to music college. One of mine at that age announced she wanted to go to the Royal Ballet School; they get these ideas. All a parent wants to do - given it's not an idea that's completely unrealistic - is make sure the door isn't locked before opens. (In a long and otherwise helpful post, maybe people will missed the above quote and I am doing a disservice by highlighting it... if so, sorry...)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Mine wanted to be a musician aged 10 and we've always kept that door open without any pressure for it to actually happen. She would have been completely free to change her mind at any point - even now. That's the reason why I joined this forum in the first place as I had no idea how to deal with that desire and I learnt what was needed for Conservatoire or Uni.

I do understand why people assume it's the parent but that doesn't make it always the case. I can remember lots of time in the past that threads were started by people not having the right qualifications to study music and expressing disappointment. I encouraged daughter to get the right qualifications, that I won't deny, but we had 8 years to do it in.

And I meant to say earlier but the phone went that (without turning this into a lovefest!) your post above (as is this) is thoughtful and honest, and the kind of reply that helps people like FullOfWind, a new forumite starting on the journey. .

[anacrusis]

Questions on the forum usually encompass more than simply the one contained within an OP, as threads evolve, surely? If the OP is not ambitiously minded, there are certainly parents posting on here who are, and my reply was a general comment, intended to allow for the pro-elitist amongst them too.

[violincjj]

Youngest son took Gd 7 flute and Gd 7 violin when he was 12 and (I think) got high merits for both, he's now 14. There is no way on earth he is taking Gd 8 on either for at least 3 years! What's the point? He can play beautiful music for all that time and grow up enough to want to be able to play all his scales well, learn loads of interesting things about context and composition that make his beautiful pieces 'work' and generally have a happy musical time!
If he wants a musical career then he can do that whenever he takes Gd 8, at the moment he does not. If he changes his mind then all the things he has learned during this non-exam time are of enormous value.

[FullofWind]

Youngest son took Gd 7 flute and Gd 7 violin when he was 12 and (I think) got high merits for both, he's now 14. There is no way on earth he is taking Gd 8 on either for at least 3 years! What's the point? He can play beautiful music for all that time and grow up enough to want to be able to play all his scales well, learn loads of interesting things about context and composition that make his beautiful pieces 'work' and generally have a happy musical time!
If he wants a musical career then he can do that whenever he takes Gd 8, at the moment he does not. If he changes his mind then all the things he has learned during this non-exam time are of enormous value.

I suppose one could argue, that if you don't see the point in him sitting grade 8 then what was the point in him sitting grade 7? Did you realise by grade 7 that exams were a waste of time?

[Seer_Green]

Did you realise by grade 7 that exams were a waste of time?

Where has anyone said they're a waste of time? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)