Hymns and the Visitor, Any suggestions? Options

[mel2]

I nearly said 'hymns for the unchurched' but didn't want to initiate a slanging match; I've no problem with non-churchgoers and genuinely want to make the experience of a service as rewarding as possible for them so would appreciate any thoughts on a situation that arises here monthly.

I am annoyed that after an 11 hour day yesterday that included work, organ practice and choir practice, I found a message on my answering machine requesting that the hymns be changed.

When I returned the call the reasoning was " I'm sorry it is such short notice but I've just got back from holiday and it is the Family/Welcome ~Service this Sunday and they won't know any of the hymns on the list".........[truncate conversation but the next bit was exactly the words used]....." I haven't decided what I'm going to talk about yet".


So we are to ditch 'Now thank we all our God', 'Praise we now the word of Grace', 'Praise my soul the King of Heaven', and 'Bright the vision'.
Let us ignore the fact that I had spent nearly an hour going through these line by line with the non-music readers in the choir.

None of these would have them rocking at Greenbelt, admittedly, but my contention is that the irregular visitor is unlikely to be all that familiar with the alternative hymns that I have been instructed to play i.e 'Morning has Broken, 'Give me oil in my lamp' and 'O Jesus I have promised', either. Clearly, no more thought has gone into this selection than could be managed in the blink of an eye.

So the question is, what do others do when they know a fair proportion of the congregation will be, if not first timers, at least unfamiliar with the culture? I know for a fact that a handful of the regulars avoid this service because of the likely presence of fidgety infants and the vacuous theology that will be presented. (I hasten to add that the service is being conducted by a Reader, not the Vicar, who submitted the original list for my approval).

What hymns would you suggest as an alternative? Because if I am to play this c@rp I shall go on pedal strike and not vary the registration one jot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) We have Common Praise, Mission Praise and A+M to hand.

[BadStrad]

So we are to ditch 'Now thank we all our God', 'Praise we now the word of Grace', 'Praise my soul the King of Heaven', and 'Bright the vision'.

my contention is that the irregular visitor is unlikely to be all that familiar with the alternative hymns that I have been instructed to play i.e 'Morning has Broken, 'Give me oil in my lamp' and 'O Jesus I have promised', either. Clearly, no more thought has gone into this selection than could be managed in the blink of an eye.

As an "irregular" visitor - I know all the three suggested alternatives and two of the originals - maybe it's my age or years of Sunday School as a kid (and a liking for Cat Stevens' version of MHB). So maybe your irregulars will know more than might be expected.

Despite that - the short notice changes are really not on, so I'm not surprised that you're miffed. I hope that others can suggest some suitable hymns for you.

[Misti]

I'm not a very dedicated church attender, and not especially familiar with hymns, but I do know Praise my Soul the King of Heaven (it seems to be frequently used on Songs of Praise... perhaps that's why) and learnt Morning has Broken and Give Me Oil in My Lamp at school. Your other suggestions are a mystery to me! I'd certainly argue strongly for keeping Praise My Soul.

I've always thought Give Me Oil in My Lamp is the most dreadful hymn ever, perhaps because I couldn't figure out (age 6) why anyone would want God to put oil in the lap (which was what I thought the words were). I had images of those Buddist monks setting fire to themselves etcetc...

[stetenorve]

"Give me oil in my lamp" gives me the shudders! We are often tasked with singing it at weddings, as bride and groom sang it at school.

[randomsabreur]

Although I can understand Morning has broken, the other two really don't make sense. As a recently returned churchgoer (but who sang loads of hymns at school) I prefer the more traditional hymns, and find them far easier to pick up - the modern ones tend to do odd things at cadences, the more traditional ones go where you expect them to far more. O Jesus I have promised was one of the ones a more knowledgable friend suggested would be difficult for a wedding congregation as the timing / rhythm of the start of the verse is not easy if you don't know it. Lord of the Dance is another one that is a bit ropey with an inexperienced congregation.

[mel2]

Thanks all for the input. I shall hold out for Praise My Soul, definitely shall refuse Give me Oil.

I went through the hymn book this afternoon and made a list of possible alternatives with tunes even someone from Mars will have encountered. Thing is, I don't know if I'm setting a bad precedent here and rewarding the bad behaviour with jolly alternatives to hymns he obviously doesn't like, or can't be bothered to get to grips with.

No reason why the rest of the congregation should have to suffer, though.

[Misti]

Maybe try and think of it as doing your bit to make sure the music is good enough, and suitable, to encourage any 'visitors' to return? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

If your 'opposition' is determined to use something of the 'Give me oil in my lamp' ilk, perhaps 'Colours of Day' or 'Make me a Channel of your Peace'. I also learnt those at school, so they'd be known by the same age/group of people as the other. Personally I think they both are somewhat preferable... although a little less... gratutiously bouncy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[Czerny]

None of these would have them rocking at Greenbelt, admittedly, but my contention is that the irregular visitor is unlikely to be all that familiar with the alternative hymns that I have been instructed to play i.e 'Morning has Broken, 'Give me oil in my lamp' and 'O Jesus I have promised', either. Clearly, no more thought has gone into this selection than could be managed in the blink of an eye.

This may not be helpful, however; I'm a non-churchgoer and I know all three of these hymns, including both tunes for 'O Jesus I have promised' (all three if you count the theme tune to The Muppet Show. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)).

[mel2]

The offender was changing the hymn numbers on the board when I went in with list of alternatives but it was not possible to come to an accommodation; he had had a service sheet printed with the words of the hymns on it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Dulcet]

This may not be helpful, however; I'm a non-churchgoer and I know all three of these hymns, including both tunes for 'O Jesus I have promised' (all three if you count the theme tune to The Muppet Show. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)).

I think I'll suggest that tune for the next time that hymn is scheduled ;-)

[principal4]

"Give me oil in my lamp" gives me the shudders! We are often tasked with singing it at weddings, as bride and groom sang it at school.

Me too, but for a different reason. I can't sing it without thinking that there must be a parody somewhere that begins, "Give me lead in my pencil". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Swell Box]

Thanks all for the input. I shall hold out for Praise My Soul, definitely shall refuse Give me Oil.

I went through the hymn book this afternoon and made a list of possible alternatives with tunes even someone from Mars will have encountered. Thing is, I don't know if I'm setting a bad precedent here and rewarding the bad behaviour with jolly alternatives to hymns he obviously doesn't like, or can't be bothered to get to grips with.

No reason why the rest of the congregation should have to suffer, though.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever) allowed you and the choir to waste your time and efforts practicing hymns which wouldn't be used. It shows total disrespect to you all. If the hymns were printed on a service sheet it is fairly obvious that the service was planned at least a few days in advance, so surely you could have had a revised hymn list in time for choir practice? In my view this is just another example of how the church has become 'increasingly 'clergy centred' in recent years.

Regarding the choice of hymns, we have had similar 'discussions' here about Back to Church Sunday, which is supposed to be on or around 23rd September. Those concerned seem to think we should build the service around Mr Kendrick's finest, as it will (I quote) "encourage young families back". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) As far as I am concerned that is utter tosh.

Whenever we have to suffer hymns like 'You Shall go Out With Joy' or other where clapping is involved, most of the congregation can be seen cringing, not really knowing whether to join in, or just pretend they are busy with their young ones. All that is needed are hymns with a good tune and a clear rhythm which can be easily followed, and which people enjoy singing! Hymns that have stood the test of time have done so precisely because people (including the unchurched) enjoy singing them.

As a matter of interest, we have an occasional Songs of Praise service in this parish, where members of the congregation (including several teenagers) are invited to nominate their own hymns, and to introduce them if they so wish. Of the 45 or so hymns chosen in the past year, only one was 'happy clappy', (You Shall Go Out with Joy), and even that was a tongue in cheek choice by a Reader, who said he wanted it sung at his funeral.

SB

[mel2]

It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever) allowed you and the choir to waste your time and efforts practicing hymns which wouldn't be used. It shows total disrespect to you all. If the hymns were printed on a service sheet it is fairly obvious that the service was planned at least a few days in advance, so surely you could have had a revised hymn list in time for choir practice?
SB

Thanks, SB; this is exactly my view.

This is a Reader, not the vicar, but the vicar mentioned to me on saturday that there had been a change of plan and how sorry he was. Sorry or not, it shows that several people were in on this and I was not informed until late on Friday afternoon, and choir practice meant I didn't pick up the message until after 7p.m.

The high-handedness is the annoying part and the impossibility of any negotiation. I really wish now I had left him to scramble around for the hymn CD.

A clear notice is going up somewhere prominent stating that any revision to the hymn list must be passed on to me by the Tuesday before the service. After all, there is a deadline for notices to go on the sheet so this doesn't seem unreasonable. If they can't get themselves organized before a Friday I don't see that it should become my problem.

[Barry Williams]

It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever) allowed you and the choir to waste your time and efforts practicing hymns which wouldn't be used. It shows total disrespect to you all. If the hymns were printed on a service sheet it is fairly obvious that the service was planned at least a few days in advance, so surely you could have had a revised hymn list in time for choir practice?
SB

Thanks, SB; this is exactly my view.

This is a Reader, not the vicar, but the vicar mentioned to me on saturday that there had been a change of plan and how sorry he was. Sorry or not, it shows that several people were in on this and I was not informed until late on Friday afternoon, and choir practice meant I didn't pick up the message until after 7p.m.

The high-handedness is the annoying part and the impossibility of any negotiation. I really wish now I had left him to scramble around for the hymn CD.

A clear notice is going up somewhere prominent stating that any revision to the hymn list must be passed on to me by the Tuesday before the service. After all, there is a deadline for notices to go on the sheet so this doesn't seem unreasonable. If they can't get themselves organized before a Friday I don't see that it should become my problem.

The final responsibility for all of this still rests with the vicar as he or she is 'the minister' under Canon B 20.

The minister is entitled to impose restrictions on last minute changes to hymns and thus prevent this unprofessional shambles.

Barry Williams

[fsharpminor]

I do not know the hymn numbers until I turn up for the service ! Very occasionally I end up sight reading one, but theres been nothing I cant manage.
OK congregation is rather elderly, and mostly we have well known traditional hymns, but our standard hymn book is Mission Praise, and they do like some modern hymns like 'Shine Jesus Shine' far more suited for a piano than an organ !