Lots Of Oboe Questions Options

[x_lenia_x]

i have a recital coming up as part of an awards thing in my county. they give 2 awards of £300 and 3 of £100 to be spent to 'further your musical futures' or something. anyways, i'm highly unlikely to win won (seeing who i'm up against - there are 20 of us) however i have to mention what i'd spend the money on if i won. i asked my parents about this today and they mentioned buying a new oboe. money is tight atm (ok, money is always tight lol) so i hadn't expected to be getting a new oboe until they mentioned it and now have lots of queries!

firstly - the conservatoire (french) system and the automatic (german) system. what are the differences?! i really don't know anything about this. is it just a difference in fingering? and if so - how big a difference? (any examples would be welcomed!)

secondly - other oboe makes. i have a howarths oboe atm and am very pleased with it and would be happy to buy another with better mechanisms (i have a fairly basic S25C). however, if i have to go down to howarths anyways, i would love the opportunity to try out some other instruments. loree and marigaux i know of, but not puchner or rigoutat. can anyone tell me anything about either of these?

lastly - is there a huge difference between 'graduate' models and 'professional'? i'm currently in my last year of 6th form but i will be auditioning for conservatoires this november as i'd love a career in music, and so am looking for an oboe to last me my life!

sorry this is such a long post! my thanks to anyone who managed to read the whole of it, not to mention actually reply! hehe

thanks, len.



also, (sorry to keep adding to the list!) i have had a lot of problems with the top joint of my own oboe cracking often. i'm unsure why as i've become quite paranoid about it being well cleaned out and kept in the right places, however i've heard of instruments where the top joint is synthetic and the bottom joint is normal wood? does anyone know much about these? are they worth getting to avoid cracking or do they sacrifice too much tonally?

[lizbun]

Good luck with the Awards thing!







The french system is one with no thumbplate, so If you play a thumbplete oboe, then don't buy a conservatoire system. I don't know about automatic system. I thoght it was to do with the octave keys instead of being a 'German' system.....



I don't know about makes,



Graduate models are good enough for amature orchestra's, and for studieng in Uni I guess.

Proffetional models are more expencive. good ones would be about £4000-£5000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[A.U.K]

Hello Len,

a few thoughts for you to consider...

Firstly I am presuming that you play using a thumbplate system as it is the most usual here..though conservatoire are fairly popular as well...I use the conservatoire system. The German or automatic system is not very widely used here...don't ask why it just isn't. I am sure there are reasons for this but according to Mike Britten the Japanese have taken a shine to the German system and most of the Automatics go in that direction. Fingerings vary depending on the system but I say stick with what you know.

As for buying a new oboe...well there are two main pitfalls...firstly if cash is tight then new can vary dramatically from £2,500 to about £5,500 which is not cheap. Also you express that you have had a lot of cracking in your top joint...if the instrument is well played in this really shouldn't be happening. This is where I am going to suggest buying a good secondhand instrument...firstly you will get a played in Oboe and the chances of it cracking are greatly reduced...new instruments should not be played for more than say 20 mins to half and hour a day for the first two maybe three months and thoroughly swabbed out at the end to eliminate the chances of it cracking...a secondhand instrument has gone through all its teenage years and should firstly be made of better aged wood with a far tighter grain and less likely to crack...for example not so many years ago Loree were making about 100 oboes a year but now its in the thousands so the wood is being harvested more regularly and is not as mature...all makers are experincing the same troubles sourcing wood of good quality so maybe a secondhand Oboe is the way forward.

As for makes and makers...Loree and Marigaux are excellent as are Howarths (don't get AmandaL started (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) she loves them and they are very good instruments) Rigoutat are mainly played in France but little elsewhere but are excellent instruments, funny you should mention Puchner...up until the other day I had never heard of anyone playing one but a friend of a friend and professional musician uses one and loves it...it all comes down to the individual oboe. I have always been a Loree player and love them but its what I have come to know and the sound I like. As for which to buy I cannot advise you but I would say to buy the most complete keywork as possible, firstly it will make life easier and your options enormous and secondly it will save you from replacing it later on when you become more advanced....bite the bullet and do it now. Just to throw a spanner in the works if you hear about Laubins or Hinikers these are excellent instruments (American) both are small makers and extrodinary so don't discount them if you are lucky enought to find one...they are rare and the waiting lists for new ones is years not months so keep your ears open to whatever is about.

A trip to Howarths is well worth it I am sure you will find what you are looking for and I wish you luck...

Got to run, decorators just arrived...any other questions PM me

Kindest regards

Andrew

[AmandaL]

Firstly I am presuming that you play using a thumbplate system as it is the most usual here..though conservatoire are fairly popular as well...I use the conservatoire system. The German or automatic system is not very widely used here...don't ask why it just isn't. I am sure there are reasons for this but according to Mike Britten the Japanese have taken a shine to the German system and most of the Automatics go in that direction. Fingerings vary depending on the system but I say stick with what you know.

I have heard that the German fully automatic octave system is more difficult and expensive to maintain. They are also apt to 'stick' more often too and prove to be a little unreliable. I admit that sticking keys on an oboe are the bain of every players life, but remember that the more intricate the keywork, the more problems you can get and the longer it can sometimes take to sort it out. Keeping things simpler proves better in the long run. I will always vouch for the dual conservatoire/thumbplate system with semi-automatic octaves. It allows a range of alternative fingerings that are sometimes essential to avoid awkward playing, as well as allowing those alternative fingerings to 'colour the sound' of a note in a particualr way.

Regarding new or second hand. I agree with A.U.K. If you are playing the instrument for long lengths of time every day, right from the start, then a new instrument is not going to be an option. New instruments need a lot of TLC. Apart from not playing them for more than about 20 minutes a day for the first two to three months and thoroughly swabbing them before putting the oboe back in the case, oiling the bore once a month for the first six months is absolutely essential. Only by regular oiling will you waterproff the interior enough to stop that repetitive process of the bore soaking up water and then drying out again - which is the real reason for it cracking. Regrettably the less mature woods that many oboes are now having to be made from are more prone to cracking, because the grain is more open and they may not have been left to dry for as many years (in their rectangular billet form), before the machining process started. The African Blackwood tree takes sixty years to mature, but demand is now outstripping supply. Very soon there may not be enough African Blackwood left to make instruments from.

As to which make of oboe to purchase, well, that's purely a matter of taste as to the sort of tonal characteristics you like. I can rave on about Howarth oboes until I bore people to tears, but A.U.K has always preferred the sound of Loree. Be guided by your own preferences, because at the end of the day it's you who's got to play it.....

A word of advice about American made instruments - Laubins, Hinikers. They are good and are well made, but the sound they produce is very much aimed at the American market, just as you get with clarinets and this can sometimes be the reason why you don't find European players buying them. American flutes also have a distinctive tonal quality, which is often darker and rounder, than those from makers in Europe or the Far East. Global tastes vary.

[A.U.K]

Forgot to mention that both Loree and Marigaux do a plasitc top joint, they apparantly do not alter the tone and are very useful...the Marigaux seen here http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./w...&pid=362424 comes with two top joints, one wooden, one plastic, it also has a much shorter top joint and a longer middle joint, slightly unusual but very effective...

[x_lenia_x]

thank you to everyone who replied!

just to explain a little more, the oboe i have at the moment (with the cracking issue), was second hand when i bought it. i got if off another girl in my county, whose mother was a music teacher so was a very reliable source. she did tell us that the oboe had cracked with her, but they'd considered it just 'one of those things' and so did i, but it cracked 2 or 3 times more with me (multiple cracks each time) despite my constant swabbing out etc.! this is why i was considering an oboe with a synthetic top joint and wooden bottom. (the m2 looks ideal if only i could find £5000! hehe)

i probably will get a second hand instrument, because looking at the current list there are a lot of professional howarths, and a couple of lorees and marigaux available for the price of a graduate model new. saving me a lot of money, and a lot of time and worry breaking it in. i would have to borrow a county instrument for a while if i bought one new, as i have commitments that would break the 20m rule!

[A.U.K]

Hello again,

Actually what you propose is very wise, new instruments are very finickity (says he having ordered a brand new pair), thankfully I have the time to blow them in and am not in a hurry to get them going...Little and often is the key when blowing in, the same with oiling, better to apply a tiny amount regularly than a huge amount all in one go, so gently does it...

The second hand instruments do not have this problem, they are blown in, they have settled and pre 1968 the Loree's are fabulous, the wood has the tightest grain and the sound is slivery and light, they really sing. Howarths are very distinctive and well liked by many top british Players (AmandaL for example, she'll crown me for saying that..."Don't hide your light under a bushell AmandaL" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) Gordon Hunt plays a Howarth as do many many others....even the American market is waking up to the quality that has become synominous with the Howarth name and thats saying something....usually Americans only had time for Loree, Laubin and Hiniker and a few strange names we have not come across here in the UK. The sevice at Howarths is excellent and the after sales care is second to none. I will say this however, do not buy the name but the Oboe itself...when you try some at Howarths buy the one you love, even if its not the brand you would normally go with it just maybe the Oboe for you, you never know.

Good luck with your studies, do you know which conservatoire you wish to go to, have you set your auditions for next year, whichever you study at I hope you enjoy your time there.

Kindest regards

Andrew

[itchy1]

Happy hunting for your new oboe! I hope you enjoy the search and get to try lots of different instruments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/goodLuck.gif) with the competition.

This is on slightly different tack, but all this talk of synthetic top joints set me thinking...has anyone seen this highly expensive transparent oboe which is made by Marigaux ( I think). I've seen a picture of it and it just looks extraordinary...I was wondering if anyone has actually seen one in the flesh, so to speak????

[Roseau]

This is on slightly different tack, but all this talk of synthetic top joints set me thinking...has anyone seen this highly expensive transparent oboe which is made by Marigaux ( I think). I've seen a picture of it and it just looks extraordinary...I was wondering if anyone has actually seen one in the flesh, so to speak????

I have seen one in a show case in the Marigaux workshop in Paris. I actually prefer the look of the wooden oboes though.

[x_lenia_x]

a transparent oboe?! i definately prefer the look of the usual wooden ones but it's intriguing! i've just tried googling for it but not an awful lot came up, just found a thread with a picture.

i'm really hoping for RNCM, trinity or birmingham however i MIGHT audition at RCM just for the sake of it. i've got nothing to lose (other than the £50 odd quid audition fee and my dignity). i have to have applied my october the 1st (it's all happening soon) and all the auditions will most likely be in november.

can anyone tell me a little more about buying 2nd hand instruments from howarths? do they have them all there at chiltern street for poor folk like me to try out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif))

[Roseau]

Howarths are extremely friendly and helpful. They have both new and second-hand instruments for you to try and will also let you try ones that you have told them you have no intention of buying because they are way out of your price range. I suggest you phone them (or e-mail them) before you go and tell them what you are interested in.

A few more random thoughts.
As you are still at school you need to weigh up the advantages of buying a new instrument under the assisted purchase scheme on which you won't have to pay VAT, so bringing the price down by almost a fifth. (Howarths have leaflets explaining how this works) and a second-hand instrument which is cheaper but on which you do have to pay VAT. The Howarth website gives prices for the new instruments both with and without VAT. They also have a second-hand list on their website which is updated monthly.

If you are buying second-hand check to see if the case is included in the price (it isn't always) and ask about guarantees. Some shops sell some of their second-hand oboes on commission and you may then find you have to pay several hundred pounds to have it fully serviced. I'm not sure about Howarth but I know John Myatt's in Hitchin sells some second-hand oboes which they have bought and serviced and which come with a sixth-month guarantee and some on commission which you take "as seen" and have no guarantee.

Try and find out if your teacher has another pupil who would like to buy your oboe. If you know you can sell your current oboe for a certain sum of money you can take this into account when budgeting for a new one.

I have a second-hand Marigaux 901 which I am very happy with (having upgraded from a plastic one just over a year ago). One last thought, don't upgrade the week before auditioning for music college. It took me a couple of months to get used to my Marigaux because the left-hand little finger keys were not quite in the same place/at the same angle. I also discovered that I needed a slightly different scrape of reed when playing the Marigaux.

[A.U.K]

The now infamous Marigaux Plexiglass model...can't say its my thing, I think it must get very steamed up and the thought of watching moisture running down the inside is slightly revolting but hey ho...anyway here it is

http://www.marigaux.com/index_en.html

sorry that isnt a direct link to the instrument...have a fumble round the website...you'll find it

[Claire21]

I also discovered that I needed a slightly different scrape of reed when playing the Marigaux.

Kerioboe, just out of interest, what did you change your scrape from/to? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Marigaux myself (trip to Howarths in a few weeks), so I'd be interested to know.

[Roseau]

I also discovered that I needed a slightly different scrape of reed when playing the Marigaux.

Kerioboe, just out of interest, what did you change your scrape from/to? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Marigaux myself (trip to Howarths in a few weeks), so I'd be interested to know.

My teacher makes my reeds (and I have never played on anything else) so I can't compare with any particular brand, nor do I know exactly what he changed. However, I will do my best.

His scrape is basically a "U" scrape and the basic scrape didn't change (or at least I don't think it did) but I found that the Marigaux was much easier to blow than my first oboe and so all my reeds were too soft. I could, of course, play the Marigaux with the reeds I had been using but I was getting squeaks in the bottom notes and the top notes were lacking in timbre. With a slightly harder reed it became even easier to play and the tone improved dramatically.

I love my Marigaux (my teacher plays one as well and I loved his sound which is why I wanted one, although mine is not as good a one as his) and I would thoroughly recommend them. If you go to Howarths I suggest you take a selection of your own reeds with you. You can also ask Howarths if you can try out some of their reeds as well. They serviced my oboe over the summer and when I went to pick it up I forgot to bring any reeds with me (I forgot I had taken the reed case out of the case when I left it). They gave me about four boxes of reeds so I could try the oboe out with a reed I was happy with and they didn't expect me to buy any of them.

[itchy1]

The oboist who regularly plays first oboe in our local (small) orchestra plays a Marigaux and it sounds lovely. I don't know what model he has. It could convert me to a Marigaux oboe...! I know someone else who plays a Rigoutat, but I'm not so keen on that sound, it sounds little too bright for my taste.