Talent vs practice, More research. Options

[BadStrad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

More evidence for hard work. . .

[wendywoo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

More evidence for hard work. . .

Just confirms what we already know in our hearts, the more we practise the more talented we become. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[BadStrad]

Just confirms what we already know in our hearts, the more we practise the more talented we become. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's what I always say, but they are lots of people out there who are very attached to the idea that talent rules!

[Banjogirl]

Just confirms what we already know in our hearts, the more we practise the more talented we become. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's what I always say, but they are lots of people out there who are very attached to the idea that talent rules!

It seems to me that part of being 'talented' is being willing and able to practise. Someone who enjoys and sees the point of practising is going to do better than someone who does the bare minimum and then only beause their mum makes them do it.

[sbhoa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

More evidence for hard work. . .

Just confirms what we already know in our hearts, the more we practise the more talented we become. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I wish!

[ChristopherO]

It was Arnie Palmer, the champion golfer, who, when asked "how come you're so lucky", replied "It's funny the more I practice the luckier I become".
Whatever your game - or instrument - the centre of success is practice - and more practice.

[Chris H]

Hmm, practise is important, but it is a bit galling that I practise the piano very regularly, and usually over half an hour every day, and my son practises piano hardly at all (he's too busy practising his saxophone) and still ends up with better marks than me in his piano exams. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[corenfa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

More evidence for hard work. . .

Just confirms what we already know in our hearts, the more we practise the more talented we become. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I wish!

It may not be linear - you might be "storing it up" and it'll all happen at once. Has happened to me & people I know.

[freda_bloogs]

I was glad that they cited some neurological research actually. It was shown that grey matter density in the neocortical (the outer, evolutionary newer bits of your brain) areas to do with movement was up to 2% more dense after just a few months' practice when non-jugglers learned to juggle. The same was shown for fine motor areas in pianists. If anyone's interested, I can find the paper(s) for you. 2% might not sound like a lot but, believe me, it is hugely significant!

[SueHM]

Maybe talent is the wrong word then. An innate interest in a subject that drives you to learn more and more about it and spend more and more time reading about it or in the case of a musical instrument, practising it, does seem to be a key factor. Many successful individuals seem to share this drive and obsession with their field of excellence.

[LittleMelon]

Hmm, practise is important, but it is a bit galling that I practise the piano very regularly, and usually over half an hour every day, and my son practises piano hardly at all (he's too busy practising his saxophone) and still ends up with better marks than me in his piano exams. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I can totally understand that feeling! It's just that inner voice that yells at you, "I practise more than he does, yet how come he's better than me?! Did I do something wrong?!" I guess it also depends on the person as well. Some people progress faster with practise, I suppose. Everyone excels at different rates.

Thank you for posting the link up! It certainly made my day much brighter! ^^ I'm surrounded by high-achievers, and top musicians nonetheless so this certainly made me feel like I have hope! Despite that I get good grades at school and get praised for my good performance on my instrument, I still feel mediocre around everybody else. I won't give up hope now!

"Practise" was the favourite word of my past clarinet teacher. Now, I think I'm beginning to see the meaning of why he said that. It's not a hollow word any more now.

[notmusimum]

I totally agree with aspects of the article work will always equal progress even if it's slow it will happen. I'm not a great believer in talent or over praise. I'm not negative about daughters efforts but I try to be realistic and praise progress rather than doing.

On the other side I think guidance is key without the right teacher input you can practice and not get anywhere.

[anacrusis]

I think there's a place for both - the article cites kids saying they don't have the brains or bodies to do such-and-such, and those beliefs also come from somewhere: either from being told, or from observing others. (in general you'll not hear a little kid say such things, it's something which comes out more in adolescence). Kids who are constantly told they're no good also don't thrive, and there is a balance which needs to be found - certainly praising effort is useful, and linking that effort with success likewise.

Still, at the end of it all - I don't think you can achieve the very best results without talent too: some of us are pre-wired to find certain skillsets easier to acquire than others. Talent however isn't useful unless the effort also goes in. And as far as how much practice gets done goes - practise efficiently and you'll need to put in far less time than if you practise aimlessly - that is a big part of why it would appear that some can cruise through acquiring skills whilst others flounder.

[BadStrad]

I was glad that they cited some neurological research actually. It was shown that grey matter density in the neocortical (the outer, evolutionary newer bits of your brain) areas to do with movement was up to 2% more dense after just a few months' practice when non-jugglers learned to juggle. The same was shown for fine motor areas in pianists. If anyone's interested, I can find the paper(s) for you. 2% might not sound like a lot but, believe me, it is hugely significant!

I would be very interested! Thanks.

[freda_bloogs]

I was glad that they cited some neurological research actually. It was shown that grey matter density in the neocortical (the outer, evolutionary newer bits of your brain) areas to do with movement was up to 2% more dense after just a few months' practice when non-jugglers learned to juggle. The same was shown for fine motor areas in pianists. If anyone's interested, I can find the paper(s) for you. 2% might not sound like a lot but, believe me, it is hugely significant!

I would be very interested! Thanks.

I've got the references. Sorry that it's taken me so long, I've had a manic few days (and they're not slowing down any time soon)! The following studies are all structural studies. There are plenty of functional ones out there too but they can be a little more complicated, I find.

Ok so brain matter density in professional keyboard players: Gaser, C., & Schlaug, G. (2003). Brain structures differ between musicians and non-musicians. Journal of Neuroscience, 23, 21-24.

And in jugglers: Draganski, B., Gaser, C., Busch, V., Schuierer, G., Bogdahn, U., & May, A. (2004). Neuroplasticity: changes in grey matter induced by training. Nature, 427, 311-312

Posterior hippocampi grey matter density in taxi drivers (memory): Maguire, E.A., Gadian, D.G., Johnrude, I.S., Good, C.S., Ashburner, J., Frackowiack, R.S.J., & Frith, C.D. (2000). Navigation- related structural changes in the hippocampi of taxi drivers. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA, 97, 4398-4403

Bilinguals (inferior parietal cortex). I've got plenty of references on language if you're interested in it: Mechelli, A., Crinion, J.T., Noppeney, U., O?Doherty, J., Ashburner, J., Frackowiak, R.S.J., & Price, C.J. (2004). Neurolinguistics: structural plasticity in the bilingual brain. Nature, 431, 757.

Enjoy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)