Getting back into technical stuff, and feeling down about it. Options

[BadStrad]

My lessons tend to go in cycles. For a while the focus is technique then it cycles round to musicality/performance and then back to technique, and so on. Obviously there are overlaps in each lesson, but it seems that too much technique results in my playing sounding less lyrical, more mechanical as - I - work - out - the - notes - and - bowing. So this cyclic approach generally works well for me.

So having coming out of a "musicality" phase we're now digging into technique and it's soooooooooooooooo horrible. I'd really been enjoying working on tunes, and was starting to feel quite good about my playing (very unusual). Now I'm back at the "why am I bothering, I'll never be able to play well. I'm just kidding myself. I should give up now and save the money rather than throwing it away." You get the picture.

Our current focus is increasing finger speed and keeping time. I have a fine sense of rhythm when it comes to dancing, say, but as soon as I pick up my violin it disappears, so teacher said to get out the metronome and to go over some of the exercises I already know and work with them. This one for example http://www.violinonline.com/tb1.htm

So what teacher wants is for me to be accurately placing (or lifting) my fingers in time, and when that's happening consistently then I up the speed. BUT - I seem to have no sense of the musical pulse AT ALL. Even with the metronome going way slower than I usually play these, if I play four semi-quavers to the click I get lost. I can just about play to the beat if I play two notes to the click. I thought that as I know the exercises it would be easier, but I'm wondering if I should start with one note to the beat exercises (thought I'd have to find some and learn them I guess).

In the past I've been able to blag my way through the timing issue, as I can mimic the timings reasonably well if I can get teacher or OH to play the pieces for me, but now it's becoming an issue.

I hate feeling this stupid and disillusioned about my playing, so if anyone has any hints I'd be really grateful.

[Tenor Viol]

Do you play in any ensembles or groups? Playing with others is one way of playing in time - you can't fudge it.

[BadStrad]

Unfortunately not. I live out in the sticks. There are orchestras in the nearby towns (about an hour or so away) but they don't take players of my level. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Teacher would LOVE me to get together to play with others as he thinks it would help too. He has been going through his connections trying to find some other players, but I live north of him and his contacts are south of him (ie ~ 90 minutes away) so not great for regular meet ups. So for now it's solo work - me and the metronome.

[RoseRodent]

Logically there will be things from your past that you felt you would never be able to do which you have now mastered. I remember as a child wondering how on earth teahers all seeemed able to tune a violin just by running the bow across in double stops - what was this witchcraft? This was something I'd never be able to do. Which, of course, I do ten times a day without the bat of an eyelid now. Just because the first ten run-throughs of something tricky sound awful it doesn't follow that you will never grasp it, and you know that of course, but maybe it will help to have someone from outside of yourself remind you.

Many a book on practice says that if it always sounds good then you are not doing it right. Perhaps you have bitten off/been allocated too much material. That exercise you linked to is very long, and I'd be inclined to stick to 2 lines of it for several sessions until it starts to sound great. I changed my practice technique recently so that I learn a small section of something new while polishing something that I have technically OK but needs further work and one thing that is repertoire that I am keeping topped up. That way I am never stuck with nothing but horrible stuff that sounds like I'm flogging a cat - like my new 5th+ position studies in hideous keys.

Do you have access to a piano and can you figure out and produce some simple chords? I think you might find an accompaniment better than a metronome for playing in time as it forms a part of the music rather than fighting it somewhat. You could record the chords in quavers, then in crotchets, then just minims for you to keep time to, it makes for the same outcome but you are creating something more musical.

You can always add interest to studies by messing with the bowing, timing, dynamics, etc. but first of all you have to have the raw materials ready. It will sound mechanical at this point, but you have to build the house before you get to paint the walls and you paint the walls before you choose flowers for the table, so right now you are building the solid foundation which will help you with oh so much in future. The technicaly exercises don't have to sound nice, that's not what they are for, they are for practicing the skills that you will later use in something that sounds nice, so don't worry if the output doesn't sound wonderful. It doesn't matter how architecturally ugly your house is so long as the structure physically stands up, and once you can build a concrete box of council flats you can move on to learn to build a world renowned masterpiece, but they all start with digging a hole and sinking a foundation.

And I'm neither architect nor builder, I just got stuck in a metaphor and couldn't get out!

Best of luck.

[BadStrad]

Thanks Rose. I should have said - I was only using the first two lines of the exercise.

The next step is to change the bowing and rhythm, but I have to get the first bit right first. I think I'll try recording the two lines and playing with those. I can put it into Sibelius and then output the audio file at what ever speed I fancy. Put it on the ipod on repeat and I think that could be a really useful way forwards.

Gotta go now the dinner's on, but will think more on this later. Thanks for the ideas and encouragement.

[Sunrise]

Sorry to hear you feel like this but I totally understand and feel like this sometimes myself!

With the current problem...you say you manage to keep 2s to the metronome in time but 4s to the metronome you lose the beat? How about trying to subdivide the metronome beat in your head before you start, so you "hear" an extra beat in there which might help keep you on track. Just a thought.

[sbhoa]

Have you tried working on the pulse and rhythm without the instrument first?
I've found that doing this does help my students who have a similar problem.

[BadStrad]

Have you tried working on the pulse and rhythm without the instrument first?
I've found that doing this does help my students who have a similar problem.

Yes. That's a big part of my frustration - without my violin I'm generally pretty good at counting rhythms and finding the main pulse. It just seems to fall apart when I try to do that and play. I'm beginning to think that I'm developing a phobic response. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I've been trying to get over it by holding my bow and violin as if to play and counting out the rhythm with the metronome. When that's comfortable I add in the violin, and then it falls apart. Arghhhhh!

Still as Rose says any new task seems impossible at first. I remember when the exercise I'm using seems impossible to play. I will try out the ideas you've all suggested, and hopefully it will eventually click into place. I feel a bit better already. I think just getting it off my chest and hearing that it's not just me who needs support in this area has been helpful.

I think I'm going to try working at the two rows really slowly and get used to using the metronome a bit more before upping the speed. I know my teacher wants me to push myself to play faster, but I'm going to have to tell him that right now that isn't helping as I'm getting tense and making stupid mistakes.

[inigo]

I sympathise with your timing and rhythm problems - you certainly aren't alone, and I find using a metronome really difficult - I find I just tune it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) if it doesn't fit in with my personal rhythm.

I don't currently have a teacher and part of the reason for that is a lack of technical teaching which has really impeded my progress recently. A lack of solid foundation has just got in the way, certainly post grade 8, and I just got fed up with the continual playing through things badly. In the beginning though, I do remember being expected to play Sevcik and scales as musically as possible - don't know why the focus changed from that detailed work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Anyway, I'm sure things will improve - even if you are finding it hard, the mental focus will be giving you something and subtly changing your technique and awareness.

[BadStrad]

Thanks Inigo. I know what you mean about tuning out. I think that's maybe what I've been doing. I get so focussed on playing I forget to listen to the metronome.

My teacher is mad keen for everything to be played as beautifully as possible (to say he's a perfectionist doesn't come close) but maybe if I loosen up on that while I'm doing timing stuff and aim for an OK sound, then I could focus more on the counting than on bowing. Then spend some time on sound quality and gradually try and bring the two together, rather than trying to do everything at once. I'm not sure teacher will be keen on that approach, but I guess I could ask him about it. . .

[sbhoa]

I sympathise with your timing and rhythm problems - you certainly aren't alone, and I find using a metronome really difficult - I find I just tune it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) if it doesn't fit in with my personal rhythm.

Thanks Inigo. I know what you mean about tuning out. I think that's maybe what I've been doing. I get so focussed on playing I forget to listen to the metronome.

Are you trying to play long sections with the metronome?
Better to use it as a tool for only a few bars at a time.
There may sometimes be a need to play longer sections with the metronome but if you are not used to it do a bit at a time like anything else.
BadStrad, does your teacher teach you HOW to use the metronome for practising different things?

[corenfa]

...

So having coming out of a "musicality" phase we're now digging into technique and it's soooooooooooooooo horrible. I'd really been enjoying working on tunes, and was starting to feel quite good about my playing (very unusual). Now I'm back at the "why am I bothering, I'll never be able to play well. I'm just kidding myself. I should give up now and save the money rather than throwing it away." You get the picture.
...

I'm a pianist gatecrashing this thread (err a piano has strings, does that count???) because I saw the title and thought it described perfectly the state I was in at the beginning of the year. I'd just started piano lessons again after 15 years and was told that my technique was chaotic and I didn't know what I was doing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (bless her, it's just that English is not my teacher's first language, she's lovely really).

I had pretty much everything deconstructed, and we spent almost entire lessons doing scales and exercises. There were a few months where I felt like I would never play anything else other than scales, exercises and 2-part Bach. It lasted maybe 3-4 months, but I really am reaping the benefits now. We have moved on to other things and spend less time on technique, but it really did help me because I can play things now that, without getting too overdramatic here, I never thought I would ever be able to now.

I know that if you stick with it you will definitely see benefits too. It's really tedious though, my commiserations!

[BadStrad]

Update!
I spoke to my teacher and told him I needed more help and what the problem was. His response - "good, we can work on that now." He said that there were umpteen things that I could have needed help with and so it would have been pointless (last week) trying to squeeze all those possibilities into the lesson - far better for me to give it a go and come back (this week) with concrete problems for us to work on.

After that we worked on the first bar and he broke down how to approach the exercise into stages for me. Initially get the first semi-quaver bang in time, every time. When that's secure, add in the third and get those two accurately in time and finally focus on the second and fourth. Then to really tighten everything up he said to play the notes as dotted rhythms (long - short, then short-long), then back to the straight rhythm. So now I've got a framework, starting with just one note to focus on and it seems much easier now. Hurrah!

What really helped though was not counting the rhythm, but singing it. So instead of going 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & (or whatever) he got me to sing the notes with the metronome, so that the sound and timing were in my head. Then when I played it was just there, in time. The counting, that I had thought would help had actually been hindering me! I'm sure there will be times when counting is required, but at least for now, I've found (been given) a way of working with the metronome that doesn't have me zoning out and playing to my own beat. I even think I might be able to do the dotted rhythm variation of the exercise and dotted rhythms are totally my nemesis.

So suffice to say, I'm feeling less useless now and more motivated. Thanks everyone for the support and suggestions.

[inigo]

Update!


What really helped though was not counting the rhythm, but singing it.

Great idea; I always find that if I can sing it, I can play it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Glad things are getting better for you!