Eagle Recorder Options

[gwyntdi-enw]

I've just been watching a couple of videos Piers Adams has put on youtube of him playing the new Eagle recorder. I wonder if this will in time lead to the development of something like a Boehm system recorder. Would this be possible? Would it be a positive development?

[anacrusis]

I'm afraid I didn't like it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif). At all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).

Yes, it's loud, yes, it goes up high, but you can see that even Piers' huge chest had to fill hard to get enough air to put through the thing, and despite his incredible technique, I found the sound too edgy and harsh. I'm sad about it, because normally I find much to captivate me in his playing, but this instrument just didn't do it for me.

Would we want a Boehm recorder? The main advantage conferred by keywork is to facilitate very fast fingering, something which is already possible on recorders even without that - Piers being a good example of a very nifty player, Dan Laurin another. It isn't necessary for the old repertoire, as far as new goes, well yes, it might be useful for that, but if it means shoving a heap of air very hard down the bit of tubing to get volume , they'll have to work more on tone to appeal to me - I don't like the sound of keywork on recorders. I also can't see how it is going to cope with microtone and glissando production, but I'm sure there'll be opposing opinions out there too...

[katyjay]

Wasn't 100% convinced of the tuning in the Poulenc recording, or the tone of the very high notes.

I'm struggling a bit to see the point of the instrument - other than to facilitate recorders playing flute repertoire.

If I want to hear a flute piece, I would rather hear it on the flute.

[andante_in_c]

Ah, is that what the point of those videos was? I couldn't even bring myself to watch.

[anacrusis]

*slinks off hiding Bach's BWV 1030 and voice flute behind her back...*

[andante_in_c]

*slinks off hiding Bach's BWV 1030 and voice flute behind her back...*

That is allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's modern flute repertoire on recorder I have trouble with. My aversion probably stems from hearing someone who shall be nameless playing a recorder version of Syrinx which definitely included notes other than the ones Debussy wrote. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[katyjay]

*slinks off hiding Bach's BWV 1030 and voice flute behind her back...*

That is allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's modern flute repertoire on recorder I have trouble with. My aversion probably stems from hearing someone who shall be nameless playing a recorder version of Syrinx which definitely included notes other than the ones Debussy wrote. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[CJB]

*slinks off hiding Bach's BWV 1030 and voice flute behind her back...*

That is allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's modern flute repertoire on recorder I have trouble with. My aversion probably stems from hearing someone who shall be nameless playing a recorder version of Syrinx which definitely included notes other than the ones Debussy wrote. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

In the same vein I dislike baroque recorder music played on a modern flute. I didn't care much for the Poulenc either.

[anacrusis]

Must admit that I'm very proprietorial about modern flutes pinching baroque recorder repertoire, but feel a bit two faced about that since as a recorder player I'll nick whatever I can get away with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif). However, I justify that by thinking about baroque performance practice, which was to appropriate and re-appropriate music for other instruments in order to improve the range of what I can play. Clearly Poulenc falls outside that range though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif).

The recorder players' and enthusiasts' page on FB has now got some questions up about it - and there are some very positive views of it from other players. It's tricky though: I'd not want to post my negative views up there, firstly because I'm not in that league (though I do know what I like to hear!) and secondly because it'd be not that great to be "down" on the thing when they're all excited about it, and presumably the maker also might read it. 'Fraid I'm not going to change my view though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).

[gwyntdi-enw]

Thanks all for your comments. I'm not at all sure where I stand on this. There are obviously plenty of recorders around very well suited to the baroque repertoire, but are modern composers perhaps writing recorder music which isn't actually playable on existing instruments? If so, maybe they should be writing for another instrument. On the other hand, most instruments change over time, so presumably the recorder can't be immune to change.

The question of whether any music can or should be played on an instrument other that the one it was written for is a whole new can of worms!

[maggiemay]

I started out unsure, and got less sure. I thought it was me -
I got through the first movement, but had to switch off the second.

[anacrusis]

It also took me a couple of goes to get through the second movement (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

It's true that modern repertoire pushes boundaries - after all, it's happened before in the development of recorders, with a shift from the resonant, wide-bore renaissance instruments, to the sweeter and more flexible baroque ones, which also had pushed the boundaries of range. My problem with the idea of making instruments which go ever higher is that high doesn't always sound that great - and certainly doesn't on this thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif). Most of the other boundary tweaking on recorders seems at the moment to be more about textures, special effects, microtones and suchlike, none of which need instruments to do extra notes at the top end.

As far as how loud the recorder can go, or can't, I'm not convinced we need it to. It's not an orchestral instrument, and one can't really even argue the case for making them for kids to play in school orchestras because the eagle is made of something very hard, very expensive-looking, weighs a ton, and is not suitable to hand to kids in the first place. You'd not want a thing sounding like that to do Brandenburg 2 or 4 either (thinking of situations where baroque recorders sometimes struggle to project). However, if it's a prototype, designed to be subjected to onward improvement, who knows? Maybe one day there might be a place for suchlike.

I did see a recorder with a metal head once. It sounded even nastier (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).

[Bagpuss]

Much as I adore Piers (I owe him my career) I didn't like this either. The Poulenc is one of my absolute favourite pieces....but it belongs on the flute.....and I didn't go for Piers' interpretation of the piece. As for the actual instrument, well my Dawson alto can match the power (so I don't use it much as it is great for modern/solo rep but not for general teaching/consort stuff).

But I still love you, Piers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) !!

Recorder-Bag x

[notmusimum]

Emsoboe came across Piers Adams playing Dave Heath's Out of The Cool. I noticed it said Eagle Recorder in the title. I couldn't quite work out if it was a dire recording or some other issue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[anacrusis]

Hunting around on YouTube, I found other recordings of other players. Same problem, nasty tone. Far cleverer hands and tongues handling that and not being all that nice to listen to.....I'll leave well alone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)