What Can You Do With Parents?, or am I just a crosspatch teacher? Options

[Violinia]

The boy concerned is 10 and quite a talented boy, but his mother always waits in the room with us and comments as the lesson progresses

.

Some teachers prefer parents staying in the room. It means they can help with practice and it often guarantees solid progress. My mother stayed till I was about 11, and when I observed a violin lesson at the Guildhall Junior Strings, the mother (of an 11-year-old) was there sitting quietly taking notes.

There is nothing wrong with this as long as the pupil and teacher feel free enough to build up a good relationship regardless of her presence, and as long as the mother keeps 100% quiet throughout the duration of the lesson. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. The tiniest comment from the parent during the lesson is the grossest intrusion and must be nipped in the bud from the outset, otherwise you are being thoroughly undermined as a teacher.

So you must tell her in no uncertain terms that from now on she must keep absolutely silent during lessons. She may take notes and ask questions at the end if time, but she must not comment on your teaching style or methods. You must also make it clear that the son should be working towards being able to practise on his own.

She has picked you as a teacher therefore she has entrusted his learning to you. She must behave as if she respects this, otherwise no proper student/teacher relationship can develop, to the detriment of his learning.

Grrrr! :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

Violinia

[stevensfo]

but his mother always waits in the room with us and comments as the lesson progresses.

:(

Does she follow him to school and sit in class as well?

Now that appeals to my sense of humour! :)

Steve

[oboist]

Lovely support, as usual.  Thanks everyone. 

The boy concerned is 10 and quite a talented boy, but his mother always waits in the room with us and comments as the lesson progresses.    I assume the list was made by the clarinet teacher, and mentioned such things as 'this note should be staccato', and this phrase should be softer, etc.    The dynamics are, to a great extent, musically interpreted by this child, and I see no reason to change them if they sound good when he plays, anyway.   

I'm feeling a bit better today, thankyou.  :)

So pleased to hear you're feeling better Nannyjay - that will help you decide rationally how you want to move this forward. Personally, I should write keeping a copy (so there's no disagreement later on what was said) setting out your irritations about the clarinet teacher being invited (without your consent) to comment on your pupil's playing, setting out what you have achieved with/for him and what you hope to achieve in the future. Who knows what she told the clarinet teacher to get them to give him a lesson - it may not actually be their fault. They may have been trying to help and possibly had no idea that their comments would be given straight back to you?

I would also state that after Christmas (ie the start of a new year/term), now he's 10+ in age, you feel it's no longer necessary for him to have any parent in the room during his lesson. You will teach him 1:1 privately.

If you set these thoughts out clearly to her, she can decide what she wants to do. You may find she backs off, she may withdraw him from lessons. If you don't want the latter, then I guess you'll have to give in to her trying to get you to do what she wants and not what you want.

Sometimes, I think however talented, these types of parently pushed pupils can be a nightmare, sadly because of their parent(s), very rarely because of the child. I take a balanced view on whether I want the hassle that goes with them or not and act accordingly.

I just try to remember that, whilst they may be paying me, the parents don't rule me. After all, I don't pay my dentist and then do the job for him by getting the views of another dentist too. Why allow them to give you the run-around? Stand your ground where you want and need to, in order to establish your teaching in a way you feel comfortable.

Best of luck whatever and hope you continue to recover. :)

[Violinia]

Does she follow him to school and sit in class as well?

That reminds me of a friend of mine who once commented on a rather over- gung-ho breast-feeding mother acquaintance: I expect she'll be hovering at the university entrance offering him a quick suck before he says goodbye.

LOL!!!

Violinia

[YetAnotherPianist]

I want bitty... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif).

[ringaringa]

Oh goodness, I thought anti extended breastfeeding comments were the domain of parenting websites.

[Violinia]

Please don't get me wrong by the way - I'm pro prolonged breastfeeding myself and into all things natural etc etc, but not if you do it in an earnest way with big boots and dungarees on!!!

Violinia

Sorry, very off-topic but needed to clear that one up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[sbhoa]

This is not quite the same thing but as its sort of a parents thing and I need somewhere to scream....

Just had a chat to an 8 year old girl and her father about practice (or lack of) and suggested that they might look at this as a family to try to get her about 10 minutes on at least 5 days a week. Have spoken to the girl about this in the fathers presence more than once so actively involved him this time.
She seems to enjoy lessons but is not a very confident child.

Half way through the lesson I found out that she has begun to have lessons at school as well, the teacher at school is using the same book and has marked (in pencil) dates of learning some of the pieces.
Apparently she was to have started on guitar but somehow is having piano lessons instead.
I have told the father that 2 teachers is not a good idea (especially in view of the small amount of practice she does) and that they will need to decide which teacher they want to stick with.

As it is plain form her book that she already has a teacher I am rather annoyed at the teacher she sees in school (parents don't always realise that this is not really done).

[chocolatedog]

This is not quite the same thing but as its sort of a parents thing and I need somewhere to scream....

Just had a chat to an 8 year old girl and her father about practice (or lack of) and suggested that they might look at this as a family to try to get her about 10 minutes on at least 5 days a week. Have spoken to the girl about this in the fathers presence more than once so actively involved him this time.
She seems to enjoy lessons but is not a very confident child.

Half way through the lesson I found out that she has begun to have lessons at school as well, the teacher at school is using the same book and has marked (in pencil) dates of learning some of the pieces.
Apparently she was to have started on guitar but somehow is having piano lessons instead.
I have told the father that 2 teachers is not a good idea (especially in view of the small amount of practice she does) and that they will need to decide which teacher they want to stick with.

As it is plain form her book that she already has a teacher I am rather annoyed at the teacher she sees in school (parents don't always realise that this is not really done).

I've had that on more than one occasion - the only time it ever really worked was when the other teacher and I used different books - I used Schaum (which he already had) and she used Me and My Piano) so we were setting him different work, and I was trying to concentrate more on rhythm too. Not recommended though (having 2 teachers, I mean!)

[jpiano]

Yes, I'd agree with sbhoa that 2 teachers with such a small amount of practice going on anyway isn't a good idea. In defence of the teacher at school, one problem is that you just don't have the control over students you take on that you have as a private teacher-all my private students come to me by way of a chat on the phone first, a consultation lesson, and so on. School students just get referred via the school office-and there generally isn't the contact with the parents. That certainly has its advantages in some ways-you don't get the tricky problems highlighted in some of the posts above-but on the other hand you don't get the chance to iron out potential issues before lessons start.

[Violinia]

This tends to happen with rather dim sort of parents who think more is always better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Violinia

[SteveHopwood]

There is nothing wrong with this as long as the pupil and teacher feel free enough to build up a good relationship regardless of her presence, and as long as the mother keeps 100% quiet throughout the duration of the lesson. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. The tiniest comment from the parent during the lesson is the grossest intrusion and must be nipped in the bud from the outset, otherwise you are being thoroughly undermined as a teacher.

I find the opposite. I welcome a parent's active involvement and do the best I can to include any attending parent in the entertainment. At best, they will be able to help with their child's practise with confidence; they know that I will correct gently and kindly when they get something wrong. At worst, I have their full support even when they are clueless.

I read threads here and often think, "Thank goodness I do not suffer parents like these" and put it down to living in an 'old fashioned' area. I do this until I talk to fellow teachers who suffer exactly the same problems with parents as those described so many times on these forums.

So, what makes the difference? Perhaps it is because I involve parents so openly and actively. Perhaps it is because I have such vast experience and confidence that I do not expect to have problems. Maybe these problems try to manifest themselves but I bulldoze them because I simply do not notice them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It seems to me that too many contributors to these forums regard parents as a problem. I regard them as a resource. Perhaps that is the difference.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ringaringa]

I'm pro prolonged breastfeeding myself and into all things natural etc etc, but not if you do it in an earnest way with big boots and dungarees on!!!

lol at breastfeeding whilst wearing dungarees.

[madabout musicdaughters]

There is nothing wrong with this as long as the pupil and teacher feel free enough to build up a good relationship regardless of her presence, and as long as the mother keeps 100% quiet throughout the duration of the lesson. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. The tiniest comment from the parent during the lesson is the grossest intrusion and must be nipped in the bud from the outset, otherwise you are being thoroughly undermined as a teacher.

I find the opposite. I welcome a parent's active involvement and do the best I can to include any attending parent in the entertainment. At best, they will be able to help with their child's practise with confidence; they know that I will correct gently and kindly when they get something wrong. At worst, I have their full support even when they are clueless.

I read threads here and often think, "Thank goodness I do not suffer parents like these" and put it down to living in an 'old fashioned' area. I do this until I talk to fellow teachers who suffer exactly the same problems with parents as those described so many times on these forums.

So, what makes the difference? Perhaps it is because I involve parents so openly and actively. Perhaps it is because I have such vast experience and confidence that I do not expect to have problems. Maybe these problems try to manifest themselves but I bulldoze them because I simply do not notice them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It seems to me that too many contributors to these forums regard parents as a problem. I regard them as a resource. Perhaps that is the difference.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Speaking from a parents point of view. My daughter wanted to start learning the cello at the age of 6, and knowing as a non musical parent I wouldnt be able to help her with her practice, I asked the teacher if it was ok to attend her lessons in school. It helps that I work in my daughters school anyway. She was more than happy with this. I sit at the back and observe, and try and remember what she tells her to practice etc. otherwise i am sure she would not have remembered at this age.
After 2 school years of lessons she has just passed Grade 3, and her teacher welcomes my support. She has often said she wishes more parents would take more of an interest, as she feels sure my support has enabled my daughter to progess so well.
Before anyone says anything, I am not a pushy parent, and I do not comment in the lessons, just want to take an interest in her playing. Now at the age of 8, I am wondereing whether to stop going, as my daughter is now old enough to take responsibility for what she has to practice, and has far more musicall knowledge than me anyway!!!

There is nothing wrong with this as long as the pupil and teacher feel free enough to build up a good relationship regardless of her presence, and as long as the mother keeps 100% quiet throughout the duration of the lesson. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. The tiniest comment from the parent during the lesson is the grossest intrusion and must be nipped in the bud from the outset, otherwise you are being thoroughly undermined as a teacher.

I find the opposite. I welcome a parent's active involvement and do the best I can to include any attending parent in the entertainment. At best, they will be able to help with their child's practise with confidence; they know that I will correct gently and kindly when they get something wrong. At worst, I have their full support even when they are clueless.

I read threads here and often think, "Thank goodness I do not suffer parents like these" and put it down to living in an 'old fashioned' area. I do this until I talk to fellow teachers who suffer exactly the same problems with parents as those described so many times on these forums.

So, what makes the difference? Perhaps it is because I involve parents so openly and actively. Perhaps it is because I have such vast experience and confidence that I do not expect to have problems. Maybe these problems try to manifest themselves but I bulldoze them because I simply do not notice them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It seems to me that too many contributors to these forums regard parents as a problem. I regard them as a resource. Perhaps that is the difference.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Speaking from a parents point of view. My daughter wanted to start learning the cello at the age of 6, and knowing as a non musical parent I wouldnt be able to help her with her practice, I asked the teacher if it was ok to attend her lessons in school. It helps that I work in my daughters school anyway. She was more than happy with this. I sit at the back and observe, and try and remember what she tells her to practice etc. otherwise i am sure she would not have remembered at this age.
After 2 school years of lessons she has just passed Grade 3, and her teacher welcomes my support. She has often said she wishes more parents would take more of an interest, as she feels sure my support has enabled my daughter to progess so well.
Before anyone says anything, I am not a pushy parent, and I do not comment in the lessons, just want to take an interest in her playing. Now at the age of 8, I am wondereing whether to stop going, as my daughter is now old enough to take responsibility for what she has to practice, and has far more musicall knowledge than me anyway!!!

[sbhoa]

Have recovered from Wednesday's annoyance now....
Yesterday a 7 year old boy coming for his 3rd ever lesson had written 'thank you, it's fun' in his notebook and promised me front row tickets when he is famous. The girl who came after him brought me a christmas biscuit from her after school club and played the best she ever has along with the duet part.... the grin on her face when it just worked was wonderful and matched by the one on mine I think.