Scales Options

[After Eight]

Hi All

I'm not sure if this post should go in the teachers, students or adult learners section, so here goes!
I teach at the moment, although have not had any formal qualifications (well, not in music anyway), and do feel very paranoid about this. Having said that, I have got many pupils successfully through their exams and we're all chuffed about that!! I decided I need to try and formalise things a little and thought would go for trumpet grade 6, as a start anyway, 'cos aural grade 8 looked far too scary to jump in at. My real question and headache is, how can I remember the scales easily! I have been playing them over and over again (without the music, so I can try and work them out first), and I still can't remember them all. What can you suggest to learn them? Do people remember scales and arpeggios as patterns or do they say the letters in their heads as they go up and down? It really has helped me realise how difficult it can be for 8 year olds!
I have spent far more time on playing these than on the pieces.
All advice gratefully received please!
Also, I get very nervous in exams, any tips? I really didn't want to enter but my hubby pushed it in the end!

Many thanks

[sarah-flute]

I don't know if any of these might help??

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=10093 lots of them are very woodwind-centric, but some might be appropriate...

[After Eight]

Thankyou Sarah!
I'm meant to be a flute player first, before brass, so this is just fine! I've suggested my pupils try playing different rhythms, didn;t think about doing it myself though, doh!

[sarah-flute]

I've suggested my pupils try playing different rhythms, didn;t think about doing it myself though, doh!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hey a flautist - excellent - do visit Viva Woodwind...

and I meant to say "welcome" - better late than never eh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[skylark]

Also, I get very nervous in exams, any tips? I really didn't want to enter but my hubby pushed it in the end!

Hi After Eight

I've discovered reading these forums that most people get nervous to a greater or lesser degree before an exam. There have been a lot of threads on the subject and the best thing to do is to do a search for "Nerves" and then spend some time reading through the threads. There's a lot of good advice in them, and the good news is that you can minimise them or learn how to deal with them.

Like your username by the way, and welcome to the forums (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Skylark

[SaxFan]

Hi All

My real question and headache is, how can I remember the scales easily! I have been playing them over and over again (without the music, so I can try and work them out first), and I still can't remember them all. What can you suggest to learn them? Do people remember scales and arpeggios as patterns or do they say the letters in their heads as they go up and down?

Also, I get very nervous in exams, any tips? I really didn't want to enter but my hubby pushed it in the end!

Many thanks

Hi and welcome.

There's been a lot recently about learning scales.
From what you say forgive my mentioning it, but you are an adult - I am too and have found learning some Gr 6 scales very tricky.
I have found that really what works is constant constant repetition. With any instrument I believe it is a matter of starting slowly and as I play sax, it is also to do with finger movements/patterns.

It helps if you know (I am sure you do) how a scale is built up and how it should sound. I don't believe it is possible to "say the letters in your head..." at the speed required for higher grades. It can be a learning support, but at some point you will need to play more quickly.

I realise that you have different problems playing scales on brass due to changing fundamental in order to get your range of notes. Have you seen the book about playing trumpet, by Howard Snell? It's great - and not just for trumpeters!
It also includes ideas and tips about performance and nerves...

Good luck.

[nic]

Have you studied theory before? All of my students (and there are a lot of them!) find scales easier when they think about the pattern of intervals, rather than trying to remember the notes.

Welcome to the forums (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Roseau]

Have you studied theory before? All of my students (and there are a lot of them!) find scales easier when they think about the pattern of intervals, rather than trying to remember the notes.

I'm not sure how much thinking about intervals helps in memorising fingering on a wind instrument. It is very easy to hear you've played a wrong note/that the interval is wrong, less obvious (particularly with cross fingerings in the top octave) to know which fingers to move to get the note you want.

[sarah-flute]

I find they feed into each other - knowing your scales helps with knowing your fingerings, and knowing your fingerings helps with scales. So the fact that I know how the scale theoretically works helps me but I need to know the fingerings too - so knowing how the scale feels helps just as much.

If that makes ANY sense....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Roseau]

I find they feed into each other - knowing your scales helps with knowing your fingerings, and knowing your fingerings helps with scales. So the fact that I know how the scale theoretically works helps me but I need to know the fingerings too - so knowing how the scale feels helps just as much.

If that makes ANY sense....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

What I was trying to say was that I have no problems with the theoretical side (and actually quite like playing scales) but on a piano you can visually see the intervals, on the violin (if I remember rightly) you have a few patterns which you just shift up and down, on the oboe you don't have a great deal. I'm inclined to think (from having observed my daughter's trombone) that a brass instrument has even less logic; you push the slide out to get both higher and lower notes.

On the oboe I tend to say the notes to myself (or rather a version of them run into each other since I don't have time to pronounce them properly and can't possibly imitate it on a computer, in fact I don't think I could even say it out loud but each scale is a different "word"). When I did have fingering problems, I practised the couple of notes I found the fingering awkward for by themselves and then put them back in the scale.

[nic]

Sarah-flute, that makes perfect sense!!

Kerioboe - I see your point regarding brass, but surely one would know the embouchure & hand coordination/movement required for each note as an intrinsic part of playing a brass instrument? (I'm just guessing as I'm not a brass player... perhaps there are multiple fingerings for each note? That would make it slightly more complicated!).

If this is the problem then I would suggest practising scales in the pattern of (using scale degrees) 1, 1 2 1, 1 2 3 2 1, 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 etc If that makes any sense at all!

[sarah-flute]

I find they feed into each other - knowing your scales helps with knowing your fingerings, and knowing your fingerings helps with scales. So the fact that I know how the scale theoretically works helps me but I need to know the fingerings too - so knowing how the scale feels helps just as much.

If that makes ANY sense....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

What I was trying to say was that I have no problems with the theoretical side (and actually quite like playing scales) but on a piano you can visually see the intervals, on the violin (if I remember rightly) you have a few patterns which you just shift up and down, on the oboe you don't have a great deal. I'm inclined to think (from having observed my daughter's trombone) that a brass instrument has even less logic; you push the slide out to get both higher and lower notes.

Oh I do agree - there's less to help you on wind instruments, and though sometimes the fingerings are reasonably intuitive, if you don't know the right one often you're just stuffed. I just mean that I don't find ONE part of the theory/knowing fingerings/knowing the letter names/knowing how a scale "feels" is what helps the rest - they seem to grow together and be quite organic in how the various bits help the others out.

Sarah-flute, that makes perfect sense!!

Phew!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[After Eight]

Hi

Thankyou for all your replies. Just a quick answer to Nic about the fingerings on brass. I play flute, sax & clarinet, and the fingerings are all fairly logical. Taken at it's simplest, a C major scale is just taking one finger off at a time. Brass would be all fingers off, then 1&3, 1&2, 1, 0, 1&2, 2, 0 - if that makes sense!. I haven't found any logical sequence. There are multiple fingerings for the same note. It's best to think about it in tube length. The length of tubing for the 1st and 2nd valves is the same as for the third valve, so in theory any note you play with 1st and 2nd fingers down, you can also play with the 3rd down. There are others but I've just realised I've gone off the point!! I can play scales fairly fast on flute because you can always roughly see where you are, but with brass I'm just finding it a little harder going. Have just managed G#m, though and am feeling happier, but for some reason the arpeggios are being a bit elusive!
I've three weeks till the exam, must keep practising, must keep practising.......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Thank you for the welcomes too!!

[nic]

Thanks for clarifing that After Eight. It's always good to know what it is like from another instrumentalist's perspective (and I'll have a lot more sympathy for the brass players behind me in orchestra!!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Best wishes for the exam (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)