Making recordings, Advise please! Options

[Dulcet]

Oo oo ooo don't want to tread on any pedallers' toes by hijacking the thread but Him Indoors is looking for recommendations for recording his choir and maybe my orchestra - I know that this will involve a rather different sound palette from that of the organ, but if anyone could advise whether he would be better off going with a couple of hundred of pounds worth of mic attached to a laptop OR a couple of hundred pounds worth of digital recorder (eg roland, zoom, tascam, yamaha) with built in mics (with possibility to upgrade the mics later?) we'd be very keen to know! Meanwhile I will pass on info already gleaned from this thread to him!

ps the choirs are sometimes accompanied by organ - does that count? ;-) If I tell you we have just sung the Vierne Messe Solenelle would you forgive me for trespassing here?

Please invite me if you do the Vierne again

It was quite a busy period for me around Easter with family stuff church stuff other musical stuff - I really should have mentioned it here though!
We did 4 Bruckner motets (the usual - locus iste, os justi, ave maria and christus factus est), 2 Vierne (Ave maria and Tantum Ergo - the latter was when I discovered that my 9yr old is a "swayer" - hope it didn't put anyone off) plus the Messe. 9 yr old kept wanting me to write out the bass to the Kyrie and Sanctus for him to play on the cello (kyrie was the only thing that would make him want to stay awake in choir practice) but they're really not in good keys for a grade 1 player and I haven't got around to transposing them yet. Agnus Dei is my favourite part of the Vierne, although why he couldn't have just put it down a semitone I don't know.

Oo oo ooo don't want to tread on any pedallers' toes by hijacking the thread but Him Indoors is looking for recommendations for recording his choir and maybe my orchestra - I know that this will involve a rather different sound palette from that of the organ, but if anyone could advise whether he would be better off going with a couple of hundred of pounds worth of mic attached to a laptop OR a couple of hundred pounds worth of digital recorder (eg roland, zoom, tascam, yamaha) with built in mics (with possibility to upgrade the mics later?) we'd be very keen to know! Meanwhile I will pass on info already gleaned from this thread to him!

ps the choirs are sometimes accompanied by organ - does that count? ;-) If I tell you we have just sung the Vierne Messe Solenelle would you forgive me for trespassing here?

The Vierne is just wonderful. We sang it on the last Sunday before Lent, in an atmosphere thick with incense. The already impressive climax at the end of the Kyrie was accompanied by a Metro train passing under the church at just the right moment. We couldn't hear the train, but the slight rumble made it feel as if a 64' had been drawn on the organ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyhow, in answer to your question, I would feel much happier using a stand alone recording device such as the Edirol or H2 rather than a laptop for all sorts of reasons.

Firstly the cost is similar. Secondly you have to think about power supplies, and whether the laptop will go into hibernate at a crucial moment! Besides, the laptop might pick up an unsecured WiFi signal from somewhere, Adobe will update itself, and the laptop will automatically reboot. (This has actually happened to me whilst giving a Power Point presentation!)

Most importantly, I value sound quality, and the various devices in a laptop (WiFi, 3G, cooling fans, and screen inverters can all cause interference. A pair of AA batteries provides a much cleaner and more predictable power supply!

Regarding the choir, a device like the Edirol or H2 should be ideal as long as it is correctly positioned. Think of the choir and microphones forming a triangle, with the microphones at the apex and you will see what I mean. Ideally, place the microphones (or recording device) in a small but sturdy table or stand at waist height or above, away form large surfaces which may affect the sound.

If an organ or piano is involved it would be best to arrange the choir and recording device so that the choir and instrument fall within the sound field. However, this may provide difficult in some churches, so you would either need to experiment or employ additional microphones as discussed above.

SB

Thank you, this is very helpful!

[daveinnorfolk]

I'm begining to wonder about investing in a setup similiar to what I used for A-Level music technology:

2 x Behringer C2 microphones (Sold in pairs for around ?50) , a phantom power supply and then connected directly to a computer line in. If the sound field needs beefing up a bit, possibly adding a C1 into the mix

[Swell Box]

I'm begining to wonder about investing in a setup similiar to what I used for A-Level music technology:

2 x Behringer C2 microphones (Sold in pairs for around ?50) , a phantom power supply and then connected directly to a computer line in. If the sound field needs beefing up a bit, possibly adding a C1 into the mix

That looks like an interesting and reasonably priced set up.

I believe there are small mixing decks available that provide phantom power, and would be more than adequate for the simple mixing our purposes require. Phantom power is 48 volts or thereabouts, but at very low current, so it would be possible to use (say) five 9 volt batteries in series if building a mixer. The Rhode NT4 that I use has its own battery built in, which makes things easier.

Some of these mixing decks also provide digital outputs, which can be fed straight in to a PC via USB, but I don't know good their D/A converters are.

I think some experimentation is required. Perhaps we should all report back form time to time with what we have learned? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

SB

[Swell Box]

Oo oo ooo don't want to tread on any pedallers' toes by hijacking the thread but Him Indoors is looking for recommendations for recording his choir and maybe my orchestra - I know that this will involve a rather different sound palette from that of the organ, but if anyone could advise whether he would be better off going with a couple of hundred of pounds worth of mic attached to a laptop OR a couple of hundred pounds worth of digital recorder (eg roland, zoom, tascam, yamaha) with built in mics (with possibility to upgrade the mics later?) we'd be very keen to know! Meanwhile I will pass on info already gleaned from this thread to him!

ps the choirs are sometimes accompanied by organ - does that count? ;-) If I tell you we have just sung the Vierne Messe Solenelle would you forgive me for trespassing here?

Please invite me if you do the Vierne again

We are singing the Vierne on Sunday (27th May) if anyone is interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

SB

[daveinnorfolk]

Update on recording gear:

on my soundcloud account are recordings made in a concert with my new gear. I'm running 2x Behringer C2, a mixing desk connected to a computer via linein and the headphone socket on both desk and computer before using audacity. Total cost around ?130

soundcloud.com/daveballard1989

[Dulcet]

Update on recording gear:

on my soundcloud account are recordings made in a concert with my new gear. I'm running 2x Behringer C2, a mixing desk connected to a computer via linein and the headphone socket on both desk and computer before using audacity. Total cost around ?130

soundcloud.com/daveballard1989

We spent all afternoon listening to sound samples and have just ordered the Sony PCM-10 for just under ?200.