Help Needed With A Very Slow Learner! Options

[maggiemay]

Can she find all the Cs, all the Ds, etc, and then make words with them e.g. find three ways to play BAD or EGG or ADDED? Even if you have to write the words out for her, that will give her something to take away and practice. Then get her to list as many more as she can think of during the week, and learn to play them. Then you can build this up into little phrases (A BAD BED, DAD ADDED ACE EGG), before transferring them onto a stave, when it might make more sense.

This can be quite good fun for a beginner - especially one who is not champing at the bit to learn written music.

I have a list of words that I sometimes give out - including some that you can't play on the piano (like badger, fudge etc) The pupil has to identify which you can and which you can't play, practise playing the "yes" ones, choose the best tune, and sometimes we go to make a longer tune or duet out of it.

[teachiepoo]

Thank you Andy,

That is very helpful--I will definitely check that book out.

Also very reassuring to hear a similar tale!

x



I have a list of words that I sometimes give out - including some that you can't play on the piano (like badger, fudge etc) The pupil has to identify which you can and which you can't play, practise playing the "yes" ones, choose the best tune, and sometimes we go to make a longer tune or duet out of it.
[/quote]


And thank you Maggie!

Sometimes these posts get out of order, and I'm thanking the person before last, so sorry about that.

I will try that also.

x

[chocolatedog]

Can you try teaching her a little simple tune by rote? Even if you have to make one up yourself? Just to see how she is aurally......it might be that aural could be very strong, and reading very weak. The other thing to do is to make a big stave corresponding to the piano keys that you put behind the keys as she may not have grasped the up/down of the stave as being left/right on the piano. You could use it to show how each white/black line (yes, OK the white lines - or spaces - are much thicker than the black ones!) corresponds to a different key on the piano and the blobs and sticks are just sounds which tell you which key to press by which line/space - or whatever words you use - they are on, maybe a bit like tracks.....I haven't used my board like this yet as I normally get it out to try to show how the up/down left/right thing works, and then put it away again, but I might possibly try some drills on it next time........ hmmmmm. *thinks* !!

[dacapo]

I have been teaching a little boy who has some similarities with your pupil - problems with differentiating right from left (hand), notes moving up the ladder (stave) or down, "seeing" whether a note has a line going through the middle of it or sits between 2 lines.

My nearly-9-year-old grand-daughter is learning the piano, and really enjoying it, but is making slow progress with reading the pitches. Last time she was here we talked about laying a ladder on the ground and walking on the rungs and between the rungs (if you walk on a rung it's likely to be under the middle of your foot, with a bit of foot sticking out on either side). Before she started lessons she learnt some tunes by rote, and also knew how to play and name the notes starting at the bass end of the keyboard and chanting A B C D E F G all the way to the treble end.

[nic]

I'll second Andy's recommendation. If it's the book I'm thinking of, it starts in the black keys, focussing on rhythm & finger numbers. Surprisingly, the transition to reading music is pretty smooth when it happens.

I've had a student similar to the one you describe, although a little younger, but aside from her I have a lot of students who don't grasp where to write notes on the stave when you first ask them to do it (even if they can read music relatively well) so don't stress about this side too much!

Some of my little ones have trouble conceptually. I usually draw the following on the board - a circle with a line through it, a circle hanging under a line, and a circle in between 2 lines, all written without the rest of the stave. I them ask them to point out the difference between the first note and the second (usually they point out that one is slightly bigger than the other due to my bad drawing skills ... gotta love 4 yr olds!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ), but then they talk about one being on a line, one hanging under a line, one sitting in between 2 lines. Then I show the notes written on the stave, and we find all the notes that sit in between 2 lines, all that have a line running through them, hanging under a line (d in the treble). The most important thing is to draw everything quite big. Not sure what the notation is like in the book you're using, but this might be a problem for your student.

Anyway, sorry to go on. Perhaps that will help, perhaps not, but it sounds like anything is worth a try at this stage!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Good luck!

[sbhoa]

I've got one who goes so slow that sometimes it's even backwards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
But that's mostly a matter of too little practice and not being bothered.
She did well just before Christmas and learned 6 carols but it's on the downhill slope already again.
Going to have to have a chat about what to do next as she's almost at the end of her book.

[adagiok5]

Hello teachers,

I am a relatively new teacher, and was really hoping for some advice from more experienced ones. I have just started teaching piano to a 9 year old girl, and I am really struggling to work out how to progress with her. She is an absolute beginner, and when she started with me she didn't even have a keyboard at home (but she has since got one for christmas). I started off with John Thompsons Earliest piano course, book 1, which is what I learned on, and has always been very good in teaching absolute beginners. However, after five half-hour lessons I've given her, since december, we have still not progressed beyond the first few pages.

All I have tried to teach in these five lessons is the concept of semibreves, minims and crotchets and the concept of middle C, B and D and how they appear on the page. The first lesson was very unpromising, as we only dealt with middle C in that lesson, and the various different note-lengths and how to count them. At this first lesson, she seemed unable to link up the symbol with the concept of a length of time to hold it down. The book has a few worksheets interspersed with the pieces (i'm sure most people are familiar with this book) and she was able, with prompting, to complete those and correctly identify that a semibreve is worth 4 beats and crotchet is worth one. But then when it came back to reading notation and playing in real time with counting, she seemed confused between the fact of a crotchet being worth one beat, and there having to be four of them played in a bar.



I was frustrated by her complete lack of picking up these simple notational concepts, and wasn't sure, by the second lesson, whether to keep on trying until she understood the counting and note-length issues, or to progress to different notes (D and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) in the hope that things would slowly fall into place in the light of this new information (and also I considered it unhealthy and soul-destroying for both teacher and pupil not to move off middle C!). But at each subequent lesson, she has been unable to understand that the note's position on the stave moves to indicate a new note. A couple of weeks ago, after teaching her D and B, there was an exercise to write the new note in varying time lengths within a 4/4 bar. She has learned what a semibreve/minim/crotchet looks like and was quite happy to draw these, but she picked a random point in the middle of the stave to represent D, and didn't seem to understand that D must be at the bottom of the stave, otherwise it is not D! When we went through the next worksheet together last week (naming the note and saying how many beats it is worth) she picked it up and got them all right. However, this information has not stuck in her brain, and last night when I pointed to the note on the page and asked her to name it, she quite often said the two notes that it wasn't before, by process of elimination, naming the note! This is despite the presence of a chart at the top of the page which names the notes, and even pictorially represents them on the keyboard!!!!!!
I've tried being a bit more physical, and less conceptual. I have played rhythmic beating games with her, which she seemed to enjoy. I would beat a steady beat and say I was being crotchets, and then ask her to beat semibreves, minims or crotchets along with me. I've also asked her to clap crotchets, and stamp her foot as minims, so she gets a physical feel for these rhythmic concepts, and how they relate to each other, and can be felt simultaneously. However, the negative effect of this game is that now, when she sees a crotchet on the page, she plays it four times!!!! A bar with four crotchets in it became sixteen notes long!

So I realised quite early on that she has a problem with notation and linear concepts (the concept of left to right on the page denoting the passage of time, the concept of up and down on the page denoting right or left on the keyboard) so I thought, well perhaps we can try and just learn things by ear for now, and maybe reading music may fall into place at a later time. She wanted to learn how to play Silent Night. We found the starting note together and then tried to work it out through singing. However when I sang a note and held it and waited for her to move up or down on the keyboard in order to match my note, it was a very long time before she did and I ran out of breath! I worried that she doesn't have a sense of higher or lower pitch, so I asked her to sing the tune with me. Hallelujah! she can actually sing! (albeit along with me). Perhaps she does have pitch sense, but simply keeps forgetting that the left hand end of the piano is lower-pitched than the right?

I would really appreciate any advice, from anyone who's made it to the end of this long post! I'm happy to abandon the notation and try and give her a more wacky style of music lesson, if anyone has any advice about that, or can point me in the direction of a useful method. I'm aware she may simply have some form of dyslexia, and that there are known ways to work around that. I really do want to teach her something, and not just feel like a crook taking her mother's money every week, when I know that she hasn't progressed. Or maybe she would do better on a different instrument?!

Help please!!!

I have had a very similar problem to this recently. The child I have been teaching was only 6 1/2 though.
I also use the John Thompson Easiest Piano Course but I do find with the very young or slow learner this moves too quickly. I do not use the worksheets in there, I find even these are too advanced for some. What I use from the first lesson with young beginners is Theory Made Easy For Little Children Level 1 by Lina Ng. This is a sticker book not unlike the normal stocker books young children use only this one is uses music notation I have had a great deal of success with this and its only £2.50p. The other tutor I use at the same time is Piano Discoveries by Janet Vogt and Leon Bates the on staff starter version. This book moves very slowly and should be ideal the only draw back is that it uses American time names but you can get over this. I also use the Pink Dozen A Day book from about the third lesson the notation in here is also very simple. Have you tried using Flash Cards these are something I use from the first lesson. I have a set of middle C based ones and as the pupil learns a new note I add this to the flash cards until eventually all the notes are used. I hope this is of some help to you. Do let us know how you get on. Good lick

[sbhoa]

I like Piano Discoveries too for younger starters or for those who need to move slowly.
I like the extra books too and have used them to support other tutors.
The Solos and Stickers Books have some lovely tunes in them.

The drawback is having to order them from America as they are very difficult to get hold of in the UK and usually if I find I need a book I need it within the next week or two at the most not sometime in the next 6 months.

[dacapo]

I like Piano Discoveries too for younger starters or for those who need to move slowly.
I like the extra books too and have used them to support other tutors.
The Solos and Stickers Books have some lovely tunes in them.

The drawback is having to order them from America as they are very difficult to get hold of in the UK and usually if I find I need a book I need it within the next week or two at the most not sometime in the next 6 months.

You may like to try ScoreStore http://www.scorestore.co.uk
It's a small family company that got some choral music from America quite quickly last summer. They are generally very efficient and easy to deal with. PM me if you want any more contact details.

[adagiok5]

[quote name='sbhoa' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:22 PM' post='453420']
I like Piano Discoveries too for younger starters or for those who need to move slowly.
I like the extra books too and have used them to support other tutors.
The Solos and Stickers Books have some lovely tunes in them.

The drawback is having to order them from America as they are very difficult to get hold of in the UK and usually if I find I need a book I need it within the next week or two at the most not sometime in the next 6 months.
[/quote

You can buy the book from https://www.music-exchange.co.uk/ mail order. I recently purchased a copy from them

[sbhoa]

Thanks for that.

The trouble can still be that when items are not in stock it can take longer for the shop to get them than it does to order from the USA.

I'm thinking of using the Level 1a book and one of the other books at that level with a girl who is about to finish More tunes for 10 fingers but who is not ready to move on.
That has the things in that I would like to consolidate with her.

[Inuksuk]

Hello teachers,

I am a relatively new teacher, and was really hoping for some advice from more experienced ones. I have just started teaching piano to a 9 year old girl, and I am really struggling to work out how to progress with her. She is an absolute beginner, and when she started with me she didn't even have a keyboard at home (but she has since got one for christmas). I started off with John Thompsons Earliest piano course, book 1, which is what I learned on, and has always been very good in teaching absolute beginners. However, after five half-hour lessons I've given her, since december, we have still not progressed beyond the first few pages.

All I have tried to teach in these five lessons is the concept of semibreves, minims and crotchets and the concept of middle C, B and D and how they appear on the page. The first lesson was very unpromising, as we only dealt with middle C in that lesson, and the various different note-lengths and how to count them. At this first lesson, she seemed unable to link up the symbol with the concept of a length of time to hold it down. The book has a few worksheets interspersed with the pieces (i'm sure most people are familiar with this book) and she was able, with prompting, to complete those and correctly identify that a semibreve is worth 4 beats and crotchet is worth one. But then when it came back to reading notation and playing in real time with counting, she seemed confused between the fact of a crotchet being worth one beat, and there having to be four of them played in a bar.



I was frustrated by her complete lack of picking up these simple notational concepts, and wasn't sure, by the second lesson, whether to keep on trying until she understood the counting and note-length issues, or to progress to different notes (D and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) in the hope that things would slowly fall into place in the light of this new information (and also I considered it unhealthy and soul-destroying for both teacher and pupil not to move off middle C!). But at each subequent lesson, she has been unable to understand that the note's position on the stave moves to indicate a new note. A couple of weeks ago, after teaching her D and B, there was an exercise to write the new note in varying time lengths within a 4/4 bar. She has learned what a semibreve/minim/crotchet looks like and was quite happy to draw these, but she picked a random point in the middle of the stave to represent D, and didn't seem to understand that D must be at the bottom of the stave, otherwise it is not D! When we went through the next worksheet together last week (naming the note and saying how many beats it is worth) she picked it up and got them all right. However, this information has not stuck in her brain, and last night when I pointed to the note on the page and asked her to name it, she quite often said the two notes that it wasn't before, by process of elimination, naming the note! This is despite the presence of a chart at the top of the page which names the notes, and even pictorially represents them on the keyboard!!!!!!
I've tried being a bit more physical, and less conceptual. I have played rhythmic beating games with her, which she seemed to enjoy. I would beat a steady beat and say I was being crotchets, and then ask her to beat semibreves, minims or crotchets along with me. I've also asked her to clap crotchets, and stamp her foot as minims, so she gets a physical feel for these rhythmic concepts, and how they relate to each other, and can be felt simultaneously. However, the negative effect of this game is that now, when she sees a crotchet on the page, she plays it four times!!!! A bar with four crotchets in it became sixteen notes long!

So I realised quite early on that she has a problem with notation and linear concepts (the concept of left to right on the page denoting the passage of time, the concept of up and down on the page denoting right or left on the keyboard) so I thought, well perhaps we can try and just learn things by ear for now, and maybe reading music may fall into place at a later time. She wanted to learn how to play Silent Night. We found the starting note together and then tried to work it out through singing. However when I sang a note and held it and waited for her to move up or down on the keyboard in order to match my note, it was a very long time before she did and I ran out of breath! I worried that she doesn't have a sense of higher or lower pitch, so I asked her to sing the tune with me. Hallelujah! she can actually sing! (albeit along with me). Perhaps she does have pitch sense, but simply keeps forgetting that the left hand end of the piano is lower-pitched than the right?

I would really appreciate any advice, from anyone who's made it to the end of this long post! I'm happy to abandon the notation and try and give her a more wacky style of music lesson, if anyone has any advice about that, or can point me in the direction of a useful method. I'm aware she may simply have some form of dyslexia, and that there are known ways to work around that. I really do want to teach her something, and not just feel like a crook taking her mother's money every week, when I know that she hasn't progressed. Or maybe she would do better on a different instrument?!

Help please!!!

I have had a very similar problem to this recently. The child I have been teaching was only 6 1/2 though.
I also use the John Thompson Easiest Piano Course but I do find with the very young or slow learner this moves too quickly. I do not use the worksheets in there, I find even these are too advanced for some. What I use from the first lesson with young beginners is Theory Made Easy For Little Children Level 1 by Lina Ng. This is a sticker book not unlike the normal stocker books young children use only this one is uses music notation I have had a great deal of success with this and its only £2.50p. The other tutor I use at the same time is Piano Discoveries by Janet Vogt and Leon Bates the on staff starter version. This book moves very slowly and should be ideal the only draw back is that it uses American time names but you can get over this. I also use the Pink Dozen A Day book from about the third lesson the notation in here is also very simple. Have you tried using Flash Cards these are something I use from the first lesson. I have a set of middle C based ones and as the pupil learns a new note I add this to the flash cards until eventually all the notes are used. I hope this is of some help to you. Do let us know how you get on. Good lick

I too have a similar pupil, also aged 9. She loves the theory made easy for young children and it is slowly ,making a difference.
I also make flash cards of the notes we are learning, and cards with the letter names on them and use them to play pairs or snap , or even putting them up on the piano to make a tune (then change them around to make another tune.)
Hope this helps.

[sbhoa]

It does help if they will use the flashcards at home too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Glass Mountain]

Hi. I truly sympathise with you and you obviously want to do you best for the child. It's a shame you have such a problem at the beginning of your teaching career. I must tell you about a boy I had who had very similar problems - I thought he'd never become a musician. He showed the same symptoms as your pupil in the early days. In 4 weeks he's due to take his Grade ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . Sometimes it's just a matter of confidence. However, it could also be problems in processing learning and a very good friend and teacher of mine has asked me to pass on this information (she's having difficulty registering on this forum). She is very experienced at dealing with children with difficulties and recommends the Hal Leonard Piano Lessons Books 1, as it's the easiest on the market. She also recommends using Christine Brown's 'Lets Read Music' available from Music Exchange. At this stage, time values are best taught in rhymes (as has already been suggested). I would also add that I teach my own son who is not diagnosed at this stage with any learning problems, but certainly doesn't learn the 'normal' way. He is very musical and, at times I find it very frustrating, but I'm not giving up and I encourage you to keep at it - even though I now the frustration you'll be feeling (especially in the early stages of your own teaching). However, helping this child to succeed will help your teaching in the future no end. You will come across this type of child now and then that doesn't learn the 'normal' way, so this pupil will help you be better prepared for the future to help others. I find it so fascinating the fact that there are so many different ways people learn. We only need to think about mathematics and the way it changes over the years the way children are taught to work things out. No matter which way we are taught, and which way suits us best, the answer is still the same - just different ways at working it out. Good luck to you!!

[Violinia]

It sounds as if this child is having problems coping with all the different concepts - sounds, piano keys and symbols on a page that can mean both sound and rhythm. It's probably best to concentrate on the purely aural at the moment, starting with rhythm; like clapping or beating rhythms and getting him to repeat them. You could get him to clap the rhythms of different foods like tea, coffee, apple juice, coca cola - and introduce notated rhythms to him that way.

You could make a 'scale ladder' and play simple tunes with one hand while pointing out the rise and fall of the notes on the ladder, and then get him to point to the rise and fall himself while you play (starting simply), thereby helping to awaken his sense of pitch.

Or you could make a game of musical snap and spend some lesson time playing that - or 'pairs' using musical cards. Or seeing if you can get him to sing with you...?

Perhaps the best way for him to start playing is to abandon books for now and do things like simply getting to imitate you playing a simple three-note tune but with him playing in a different octave - as other people pointed out he may be highly developed aurally and finding it hard to cope with the idea of written symbols for music.

He sounds like a very interesting challenge and could be the most rewarding pupil ever if you let go of any ideas and use whatever resources you can think of to move him forward, both from your own imagination and from whatever teaching resources you can lay your hands on, especially anything involving games!

Violinia