Music Scholarships for Independent Schools, Do they encourage child abuse? Options

[Misti]

The UCAS reference is something I'm honestly trying not to think about - at the end of year 11 each pupil's form tutor had to write a sort of reference for them, talking about their achievements and such over the past 5 years and her form tutor told the class to write them all themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) The tutor did eventually agree to do it after they all refused, though they did some amusing joke ones. I think she has a different 6th form tutor, hopefully she won't be made to write her own UCAS reference, though I suppose that might help. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Frankly, I wish I'd had the chance to write my own reference! The tutor who wrote mine never taught me, barely knew me, and saw me for 20 mins a week over a single term before writing my reference. She then didn't consult me on the content. When I finally saw it, after it had gone to all my universities, I found it was littered with factual errors. We aren't talking minor things here, I mean matters like what GCSE grades I had. It made it look like I had lied about my achievements on my application form.

Not good, and then she was suprised when I (being a teenager) completely lost my temper, and told her straight that it was totally unacceptable. That particular shouting match was legend in my year group for a while... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Swell Box]

I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broker who had fiddled HMRC out of 210,000 GBP in VAT to pay for school fees.

He is currently serving three years!

The lengths some people will go to to avoid the state education system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

SB

It makes you wonder what they are so scared of. What an example for his children.

What the neighbours think, perhaps? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

SB

[Listener]

Sigh, to get back to the OP (and away from the tedious independent school bashing - could someone start a separate thread?), a young member of our family had a music scholarship at an independent school. There was never a hint of child abuse and keeping up standards didn't loom large - although her interest increased rather than decreased over the years and progress was satisfactory. I think that's the difficult thing to predict. It helped that the financial benefit was not large (and neither were the fees... at the outset), so it was a bonus rather than a necessity - and a bit of kudos for the scholars in a school that valued music. Music scholars were re-auditioned every few years, which gave them a chance to drop out gracefully if they'd lost interest, or the staff an opportunity to talk about commitment to any re-auditionees who didn't have a track record of contributing/progressing. The demands were not excessive - reasonable I would say - and our only issues came from clashes between school and outside music commitments (also scholarship based - and this time with tax payers' money); in general the grown ups concerned sorted these in an adult fashion.

[jonathanquinn]

A child ought not to be coerced into taking part in an activity in which he or she does not wish to take part. It is a parent's and a school's responsibility to make opportunities available but not to enforce taking advantage of those opportunities. I had various musical instruments and opportunities offered to me and I took full advantage of all that was on offer: violin, viola, recorder, clarinet, guitar, piano, singing, and even ballet lessons. I never had to be asked to practice; I loved playing musical instruments and my parents often could not stop me from playing them. My sister had all of the same opportunities but did not take much of an interest in music, did not want to put in the time to practice, and was not forced to.

I am appalled when I read awful stories such as Lang Lang's father instructing him, aged nine, to kill himself for not being a good enough pianist, or Analiza Ching's father beating her in the hope that it would make her play better, or David Choi being spanked if he didn't practise. A child should not be coerced, physically or mentally, to enforce musical excellence, or excellence in any other area of achievement for that matter. The older I have got, the more I have realised that being happy is so much more important than being good at anything. I have friends who were spanked by their parents for incorrect spelling. They have ended up with good degrees from top universities, but I'm pretty sure they might have turned out happier people maybe not having perfect spelling, maybe not being academic high fliers, and just having had happy childhoods without the fear of physical punishment just for spelling badly.

I note the request for forum members to desist from 'tedious independent school bashing', but I shall happily ignore it. The independent school system is one of the biggest things that is wrong with this country. What it means is that a child's opportunities to fulfil his or her educational potential are determined largely by his or her parent's ability to pay for a standard of education that is superior to that generally on offer in the state system. Of course, nobody is suggesting that educational excellence ought to be abolished. But I cannot understand how anybody can fail to see that it is repugnant that two children of similar ability can achieve vastly different results depending on whether their parents are able to afford a private education. Indeed, having taught at one of this country's (indeed the world's) finest universities, and having taken degrees at Oxford and elsewhere, I feel qualified to say that a child of really quite low ability can obtain excellent examination results and a place at a world-class university thanks to an expensive education, whereas those of very much superior ability might perform much less well because through having a poorer standard of education. This injustice is so fundamental and so obvious that I am astonished that no government, not even a socialist government, has set about the abolition of private education.

[Scooby Doo]

Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? For goodness sake, get real.

I find the socialist reduction of everything to the lowest common denominator pretty tedious myself.

[Chris H]

Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? For goodness sake, get real.

I find the socialist reduction of everything to the lowest common denominator pretty tedious myself.

I agree with Jonathanquinn. No one's saying we should live in a dictatorship, but the education system as it stands is fundamentally unfair.

[randomsabreur]

I'm very strongly of the opinion that the education system has got far less fair since the abolition of most grammar schools, which were as good if not better than many private schools. My father was the first of his family to go to University - his father worked for the gas board, and he went to grammar school in East London. He now has loads of dosh, some of which he chose to spend on my education, despite being ideologically against private schools, because the state system when I was going through was very anti competition (no proper sports day, just team building activities), no end of year exams and no real wish to push students beyond the minimum league table requirements.

Where grammars were universal, they weren't middle class enclaves, because the 11 plus was something you just did. Now you have to choose to do it, so it's generally the middle classes who decide to do something about it rather than let things happen as they happen. Same with university - where parents have experience of the system, they make sure that their children have the basic pre-requisites (modern language at GCSE for instance) which a lot of universities required, but not all schools made this clear!

Private schools do also tend to take some children without means. One of my friends joined my private school while her family was basically seeking asylum in the UK. She is now a city banker, and the richest of all my friends, but her family lived in a 2 room flat in the grotty bit of town and paid no fees throughout her school career (bursary + scholarships). It purely depends on the school.

[FullofWind]

The biggest problem with state schools is that a lot of the teachers are very anti-elitist. The vast majority are socialist and with that often (note I say often) comes an anti-elitist attitude, although it shouldn't. Even in areas where there are 11+ schools it is often frowned on by teachers who do nothing to help a child to pass the test or even bring it to a parents attention that their child may be capable of passing. Private schools are not the problem, but an anti-elitist culture is. Self-belief and self-confidence are not promoted or even discussed. I wonder if it's even part of teacher training!

[andante]

The reason no government has abolished private schools is that they would then have to pay to educate thousands more children.

Also you can educate your child at home, and it is only sensible for groups of home educators to share their expertise and thus small private "schools" start up.

Grammar schools throughout the country are the answer.

[sunil]

At the moment daughter goes to a state primary school, and will finish this July in year 6. She is still in the waiting list for 1-2-1 music lessons and never had any chance to Sing or Play in school.

They have music listening time and arts associated with music, which are mainly driven by Justin Beiber / 1Direction culture. Once she came back from school with a cut out of Cheryl Cole, which was made in Arts session (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry.gif) .

Most of the time she is being isolated as her world moves around Classical music and very mature Country / Soul music.

[Listener]

I note the request for forum members to desist from 'tedious independent school bashing', but I shall happily ignore it.

One forum member actually. And what I asked was for a separate thread to be started. You are very welcome to think and say what you like - happily we are allowed choices and views in this country. I find it interesting reading others' views and think about those that do not coincide with mine, and sometimes they make me change mine. Shall I start the thread?

The point you miss is that by 'bashing' independents you (collectively) are not answering the OP's question.

[Scooby Doo]

Good point. To return to the subject in hand then, I think it's very unlikely that parents truly abuse their kids for the sake of a scholarship. The OP is only speculating about what has gone on in the family he/she knows. True some kids have to work extremely hard for their scholarships but whether this constitutes abuse is another question entirely.

All of my kids have received scholarships, in different disciplines from different schools. They have worked extremely hard of their own accord and benefitted enormously from those scholarships. I know there are people outside my family (some teachers in particular) who saw me as some kind of slave driving mother who tied her children to their desks/instruments and forced them to do all manner of extra-curricular activities. Nothing could be further from the truth - I am actually quite lazy as a parent and I believe in letting kids find their own level, as those who actually know me will confirm. It's easy to misjudge other families when you don't actually know them.
Not every high-achieving kid has a tiger mother driving them.

[Swell Box]

I note the request for forum members to desist from 'tedious independent school bashing', but I shall happily ignore it. The independent school system is one of the biggest things that is wrong with this country.

I could not disagree more strongly. It is the present state education system (in tandem with a warped welfare system) which is failing this country. Public schools only exist and flourish because so many state schools are woefully inadequate. Very few parents would contemplate spending 20,000 pounds a year on school fees if state schools were up to the mark.

The rush to abolish Grammar Schools in favour of ubiquitous 'comprehensives' was one of the biggest mistakes of any government in my view. Grammar schools provided almost unlimited opportunities and social mobility for bright children from all backgrounds, regardless of their parents ability to pay, whilst the 'Technical' schools were much better suited to those with more practical abilities.

I am sure that comprehensive schools could be perfectly good if those in charge had the will to ensure that every child's abilities were developed to the full. Instead, the lefty-liberal element in state education has made it fashionable to 'level the playing field', and to 'dumb down' the learning process to that of the lowest common denominator, whilst bright children are expected to sit at the back of class and read.

If the state education system is so good, why did our constituency Labour MP choose not to send his children to the local comp? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

SB

[ansatz496]

A child ought not to be coerced into taking part in an activity in which he or she does not wish to take part. It is a parent's and a school's responsibility to make opportunities available but not to enforce taking advantage of those opportunities. I had various musical instruments and opportunities offered to me and I took full advantage of all that was on offer: violin, viola, recorder, clarinet, guitar, piano, singing, and even ballet lessons. I never had to be asked to practice; I loved playing musical instruments and my parents often could not stop me from playing them. My sister had all of the same opportunities but did not take much of an interest in music, did not want to put in the time to practice, and was not forced to.

What if a child doesn't want to brush their teeth, eat regular, healthy meals, or complete their schoolwork? Should they "not be coerced into taking part" in these activities? I absolutely agree that these things can be taken much too far (i.e. Lang Lang), but to an extent I think parents who consider music a vital part of education, as I will if I ever have children, have the right to enforce a reasonable/healthy amount of practice especially up to a certain age.

[tonedeafmum]

If this thread cannot return to topic (thanks Scooby Doo for the attempt) maybe it should be quietly closed or removed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/goodNight.gif)