Why Are All Composers Male?, Were women just not good enough? Options

[Oddball]

Why are all of the famous composers male? Whe I say famous I mean people like

Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninov.... etc. etc.

Just seems odd. Were women not deemed interested? I'm not sure how many female composers there is around today. I guess it's about 50/50.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

[nicki_flute]

Basically women were seen as second rate, men dominated. Even today I can't think of any women composers...well Cecilia Macdowell did some flute things. But that is only 1 person...

[pianist_rocker]

The only woman i've ever heard who was a composer was Mozart's sister but i'm not very sure about that. Apart from that i don't know any female composer

[pianomistress92]

I am not that familiar with women in society in Europe at the time. I do know that they probably had some musical talent, but even back then, I am pretty sure that all professional musicians were male. In addition, women probably weren't expected/allowed to focus on things like composing - instead, they were kept inside to run the household things. Honestly, I don't think saying that women weren't good enough is an accurate answer. Instead, it has a lot to do with the time period and social/cultural ideas.

[Watermelon sugar]

Why are all of the famous composers male? Whe I say famous I mean people like

Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninov.... etc. etc.

Just seems odd. Were women not deemed interested? I'm not sure how many female composers there is around today. I guess it's about 50/50.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

It isn't that women weren't good enough, it's that they weren't stupid enough.

The last 150 years has yielded many women composers.

[Car Expert]

I don't know any female composers off ny heart. Can't believe nearly all of them are male! :blink:

Car Expert

[pianomistress92]

Wow. It's amazing how difficult it is to think of female composers.

I guess it's since the ones we know best are from the past. There aren't too much extremely acclaimed modern composers.

[andante_in_c]

Radio 3 has two women composers in its 'Composer of the week' slot, both of whom were eclipsed by male relatives: Clara Schumann and Fanny Mendelssohn Hensel.

It wasn't so much that female composers didn't exist, but that their work didn't get the exposure of the male composers.

[another crazy pianist]

Only a couple of weeks ago I started a thread : "Who's your favourite female composer?" Have a look at it, you'll discover the "female composing universe" !

[Trebor]

It isn't that women weren't good enough, it's that they weren't stupid enough.

Shouldn't that be clever enough?

I agree that until fair education systems were set up the vast majority of women did not have the training in music that men got, and so obviously could not compose or notate music. As society had developed, the discrimination between genders has decreased and so in more modern music, female composers have begun to appear.

[chocolatedog]

Wasn't Chaminade a woman composer? Not sure, but I thought I'd heard/read it somewhere.

[jazzywench]

Glad someone else has noticed this fact, it was going to be my dissertation topic at Uni but was told it could easily have stretched to a masters. Ended up doing one about Rocky Horror and it's links to John Cage!!! :blink:

[andante_in_c]

Wasn't Chaminade a woman composer? Not sure, but I thought I'd heard/read it somewhere.

Yes, Cecile Chaminade. (In)famous for the flute concertino, although I prefer Serenade aux etoiles.

I discovered from the other thread that Claude Arrieu was also female. :ph34r:

[another crazy pianist]

In the 19th century, there were already many female performing musicians, but much less composers. Clara Schumann was not only a brilliant pianist, she composed good stuff too. I heard some of her songs and piano romances, and her piano concerto, written at the age of 15. But unfortunately, her husband Robert Schumann discouraged her to compose. Likewise, Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy discouraged his sister Fanny to compose, though she was very gifted as well.
In earlier ages, only very few women were so lucky to be left alone with there composing business, like Hildegard von Bingen in the 13th century and Barbara Strozzi, the only woman of all 17th century who managed to publish her own music. She was a rich man's daughter and a good singer too.

[AnotherPianist]

Indeed, it's just that women didn't have the opportunity to do things in the same way that men did: women didn't have jobs composing or whatever but were at home looking after the house, and were often considered inferior. The women even if they did compose probably couldn't get the same exposure that the mend did (can't help but feel I'm setting one up for Sir P here ;)). There were a few famous women composers in the past (mostly relatives of famous male composers) but now with women having careers as well as men the proportion of female composers is slightly higher although there are still more men.

Something controversial: according to statistics for every female genius there are 5 male geniuses so those who lasted the course we would expect to be a 5 to 1 male to female ratio if women weren't supressed anyway. If I say I'm female does that make me any less likely to be repremanded for that comment :ph34r:?