"it Isn't Necessary To Touch Children In Order To Demonstrate Options

[Jane S]

I think I can feel a change in my T&Cs. It is about time to update. Now, as a piano teacher, I draw the line at prodding students with a stool or ripping off part of a pedal or hammer. Playing duets is clearly off the menu too. Ho hum, I'll go back to the old fashioned method of applying a ruler to the back of the knuckles instead. It seems to be if you can't join them, beat them.

See my next post, this one is meant to be tongue in cheek too.

[Seer_Green]

I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's pretty difficult to play without touching - what happens when hands cross over? I think the simpler solution would be for us to all give up teaching full stop...I wonder if society would be that bothered?

[Fran*Piano]

Ho hum, I'll go back to the old fashioned method of applying a ruler to the back of the knuckles instead. It seems to be if you can't join them, beat them.

Beat them with the ruler? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Czerny]

I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's pretty difficult to play without touching - what happens when hands cross over? I think the simpler solution would be for us to all give up teaching full stop...I wonder if society would be that bothered?

I'm pretty sure some duets were intentionally written in such a way that the two players couldn't avoid touching. I've played one by Mozart where you practically end up embracing!

[Jane S]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Don't take my post too seriously (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I just don't see how I can avoid touch teaching with the piano, not unless I avoid duets. Was it Mozart who wrote the piece for a man playing with his arms either side of two women? Or Beethoven, definitely wasn't Elton John. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Martin.Walters]

What an awkward situation our culture has put us in. I think I would just stick CCTV in the room and make sure people under 13 had a parent in the same room so they could see clearly what was going on and make quick note of it in a form in which they sign to agree conditions set.

Tough country!

[vectistim]

I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's pretty difficult to play without touching - what happens when hands cross over? I think the simpler solution would be for us to all give up teaching full stop...I wonder if society would be that bothered?

Try doing this duet (Sonata Innnamorata) without touching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YgWcqAm5E

[ffliwt]

Most ridiculous thing ever! This makes me so angry.
I have masterclasses with a 70-something year old man who walks round me as i play changing my hand position or wrist position, or just tapping the beat on my shoulder, there is NOTHING 'dodgy' about it, he only makes contact when necessary, and i would never ever think anything wrong with it, and i know it'd have taken me 3 times as long to learn something if he was never to make any contact. My teacher often changes my wrist position etc. also but it makes her nervous which makes me so sad - she's been teaching me for 3 years now and is practically family yet because of all the ridiclous OTT hype about 'not making physical contact', she feels scared to even touch the wrist or arm of a pupil!
What kind of world is this, and how are musicians supposed to learn things - especially on an instrument such as violin when the position of your hands, wrists, arms, shoulders etc. are so important.

Ridiculous (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Also - on that violin demonstration, it's only necessary to put a finger and thumb on the wrist of the child to put their wrist into the right position, so what a stupid example!

[Jane S]

I always agree to parents being present if they so wish, as long as they don't heckle! There has to be a balance about teacher and student safety. I also think that at the moment, the current climate is not helpful. Children and vulnerable adults deserve consideration, but teaching should not necessarily be compromised. I liked Aquarelle's point about northern Europe, and England can have a pretty negative attitude to children and young people sometimes. The current atmosphere is just increasing suspicion and fear. And it shouldn't be forgotten that some [students and their families very frequently make false accusations to punish a teacher. This is commonplace in the state sector. I also think teachers have to face up to the issue of unsavoury people using teaching as a means to get to vulnerable students, as they would use any method to get their way. But that doesn't mean that we should all run scared, and by so doing, wrap children in cotton wool as that is just as much an abuse as well.

[baiba]

I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's pretty difficult to play without touching - what happens when hands cross over? I think the simpler solution would be for us to all give up teaching full stop...I wonder if society would be that bothered?

Try doing this duet (Sonata Innnamorata) without touching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YgWcqAm5E

Aww this vid is soo sweet I love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[Henry Fagg]

If you're a music teacher posting on this forum who thinks your comments aren't listened to, well think again.

Education Secretary Michael Gove has now written an open letter to the MU to tell them that music teachers SHOULD be able to use appropriate touch with their pupils. See the BBC News article here:

Gove: Tutors should be able to touch music pupils

If you've followed this thread, you'll have seen how Mr Gove's intervention is likely to be the indirect result of the storm of protest on this thread which was then reported by The Telegraph and other media outlets.

I didn't think this kind of thing happened in real life!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

[Henry Fagg]

Here's a pdf of the letter from Michael Gove, explaining how he was 'so disappointed' by the video in question:

http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files...hael%20gove.pdf

[jm-hamilton]

I hear on the 6 o'clock news that the Musician's union and the NSPCC are sticking by their advice to teachers - not to touch pupils. I can expect to be accused of child abuse since yesterday, when I did a duet for a pupil's GCSE assessment. Both parts are quite close on the keyboard and occasionally he did not let go of a note quite quickly enough before I needed to play it, so yes, our fingers touched.

[Jane S]

Well, I'm gobsmacked! Only today I had a parent and young 5 year old child come for an initial talk. When discussing T&Cs, I explained that I'm drawing up new ones, and apart from the usual stuff, I also explained that at times touch to correct posture is necessary. I am going to have this clause in the list. The parent was completely unfazed. As I work on my own, a parent being present in a silent capacity is more than welcome.

There is no getting away from the fact that there are unsavoury characters out there, but to prevent normal healthy contact between adults and children is damaging, as it makes telling the difference between normal and abnormal more difficult. I hope that this doesn't turn out to be hot air from the minister. The MU are only trying to do the right thing for their members. False abuse allegations should be legally actionable.

My first lesson in using a pedal involved my 70 year old teacher crawling around on her hands and knees holding my foot in the correct position! Nothing wrong with that. I don't teach it like that, but if it should become necessary, then I'd do it.

[oldromola]

Mostly the parents of the children I teach are in the same room or next door. The day any of them complains when I say 'well done' to a pupil and give him/her a brief congratulatory hug I shall stop teaching immediately.