Grade 8 In 1-3 Years?, What does anyone else think???? Options

[chocolatedog]

I think anyone (normal, that is without learning disabilities or physical problems) has the ability to reach grade 8 in 1 – 3 years. So why don’t they? It is really simple. You cannot get good at anything with 30 minutes lessons once a week and half-term breaks every two months plus summer holidays. Add to that that most students will not practise or practise wrongly and a long period of drudgery will ensue.

My students usually take grade 5 after 6 months to one year (I don’t bother with grades 1- 4 anymore) and grade 8 after 2 years. (I also don’t bother with grades 6 – 7. If you can do grade 6 you can do grade 8 ). I am not boasting, because I do not think it has much to do with me. It has to do with the way I teach. Anyone prepared to teach this way will have the same results (basically you have lessons everyday to start with)  Actually the whole “grading” of pieces is slightly crazy – mostly because degrees of difficulty are highly personal  - what is grade 1 for someone may well be grade 8 to someone else. My opinion is that a piece is never difficult. It is either easy or impossible. And lessons plus correct practice are the recipe to turn an impossible piece into an easy piece.

So I guess the ultimate answer to your question is that students who are not at grade 5 after 1 – 2 years are not really serious about it.

What does anyone else think?! Shocked me when I read it, I can tell you........

[Deborah]

chocolatedog, where on earth did you find that?

Yes, Grade 8 within three years is certainly feasible - for example, Husband learnt the oboe as a child. His oboe teacher's son started the flute and passed Grade 8 about 18 months later, but these were exceptional circumstances - he'd grown up in an extremely musical environment, and it wasn't his first instrument. Some people to tend to gel with a particular instrument as well.

It sounds as though the author teaches their students three pieces to pass Grade 5, and then a further three to pass Grade 8, and nothing else. I wonder how the author's students manage with sight-reading, aural and scales.

Whilst I can see that daily lessons would pay dividends, are there many students out there willing to attend (or parents willing to pay for) seven lessons a week? Isn't that supervised practice rather than anything else?

[benjaminja]

Yes. How many people are in a position to have a lesson every day and how many know when they are practising something incorrectly? If you have musical parents then this is more of an option but for the rest of us it isn't. I got to grade 8 after about 8 years (not piano) yet I do consider myself to be 'serious about it'. Or isn't that allowed?

(Having said that it's coming up to the first anniversary of me starting recorder lessons and I am working on the grade 8 syllabus - but I already had the relevant musical background/had learned how to practise effectively).

Perhaps you can't generalise this much. A lot of people don't want music learning to be 'serious', anyway...

[Musictuary]

chocolatedog, where on earth did you find that?

Yes, Grade 8 within three years is certainly feasible - for example, Husband learnt the oboe as a child. His oboe teacher's son started the flute and passed Grade 8 about 18 months later, but these were exceptional circumstances - he'd grown up in an extremely musical environment, and it wasn't his first instrument. Some people to tend to gel with a particular instrument as well.

It sounds as though the author teaches their students three pieces to pass Grade 5, and then a further three to pass Grade 8, and nothing else. I wonder how the author's students manage with sight-reading, aural and scales.

Whilst I can see that daily lessons would pay dividends, are there many students out there willing to attend (or parents willing to pay for) seven lessons a week? Isn't that supervised practice rather than anything else?

I've seen this post before so I think I know where Chocolatedog got it from. The poster "B" is a well-respected authority on that forum and has many good suggestions. I do not believe that "B" as Deborah suggests just teaches the three Grade 5 pieces then the three Grade 8 pieces. From what I have read of his/her posts he/she truly believes that music like other subjects should be taught all the time. "B" strongly is against the common practice of suspending music lessons during school breaks as he/she believes valuable time is lost here. I guess he/she does have a point there. I believe "B" teaches students of all ages from young children to elderly adults so his older students would not be affected by school breaks.

Personally I am not at the musical level to make a judgment as to the merits of skipping straight to grade 5 and then to grade 8. However I think it could be feasible if the student has a solid theoretical background which I believe "B" tries to instill in his/her students. There is another discussion on this forum discussing going from grade 6 to grade 8 so therefore "B's" approach here is not unconventional.

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=12663

[neil.clarinet]

Sounds like over working at music. May be the opposite of many students we can think of but it's still outrageous. And yes, if they are doing grade 5 and grade 8 to the exclusion of all else that's a blatant abuse of the exam system. I don't have time to do exams this year so I'm just 'enjoying' playing. Clarinet - going over old material, some new things to work on. Piano - working through Bach 2+3 part, 'the 48', Mozart/Beethoven sonatas, etc.

Also, what exactly is 'normal'? Older learners generally learn faster than younger ones. So are young children 'not normal'?

[SteveHopwood]

Extremism of this kind is best ignored.

What can happen if a child has a 30 minute lesson every day is irrelevant. Apart from wildly exceptional circumstance, this is not going to happen.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Saxophonist]

My opinion is that a piece is never difficult. It is either easy or impossible. And lessons plus correct practice are the recipe to turn an impossible piece into an easy piece.

So I guess the ultimate answer to your question is that students who are not at grade 5 after 1 – 2 years are not really serious about it.

hmmmmmmmmm! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) sounds like a higly qualified and supportive teacher there.

[chocolatedog]

I guess I was shocked because not even my best pupils would have ever been able to do that! Does 'B' select his pupils? I can't imagine many of mine ever having the ability to get to grade 5 in a year - unless they already are proficient at another instrument first.......The problem with it is it made me feel really inferior as a teacher and that I'm doing something wrong, although having said that, piano in this country is just one of the hundreds of extra activities kids do these days.........jack of all trades and master of none!!!........

[anacrusis]

Where does LIFE come into this approach?! I'm serious about music, and commit time to it, but in proportion to the other demands on my time, and I guess such proportions will vary from person to person. Also, I'd worry about burn-out in someone getting daily lessons, and the danger of assuming that everyone's rate of learning is the same. It could also kill enthusiasm rather than creating it. I'd rather that kids had music as part of an education "in the round", and that they could then choose at a later stage what they really want to do.

[barry-clari]

Well, it took me 6 years to get to grade 5 clarinet, and just over 9 years to reach grade 8. I am now a woodwind teacher, and to say that anyone who doesn't reach grade 5 in a year or so isn't serious about it seems a bit strange, as most of the pupils I have want to get as good as possible, as quickly as possible. Most people, in my opinion won't reach grade 8 in 3 years (the best pupil I've had got there in 3 and a half years, and she already played piano before playing clarinet). Besides, isn't the whole point of playing an instrument to enjoy it, whatever standard you are?

[musicbox]

Well I'm serious about music, and I most definately have been playing longer than two years and I'm only grade 4-5 standard.

[Trebor]

Moreover, to state that anyone that does not reach Grade 5 after 1-2 years is 'not serious' about music surely implies that the poster feels the majority of people who study or teach music are 'not serious', despite the fact it may be their livelihood. I'm sure there must be professional musicians who did not progress at this rate, but I doubt they'd be pleased with his/her classification of them.

Daily lessons would doubtless be beneficial (to an extent, but I have to wonder when they can practice), but is obviously unfeasible for the vast majority of people. Also, if he/she gives daily lessons, then one can assume he/she does not have a great number of students and so is able to select the best from the people who apply.

Although this may come down to linguistics: what does the poster mean by serious? I'm serious about wanting to learn and progress, but I don't want to make music my career. And I'm not prepared to sacrifice everything else in my life to progress at music (or at any of the things I do). If you were to have daily lessons, you would have to be completely certain about your commitment to music at the expense of everything else.

My opinion is that a piece is never difficult. It is either easy or impossible.

I disagree with that.

[Lisa87]

This is ridiculous!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) It puts a great deal of pressure on the students being taught this way & also makes them feel inadequate if they do not reach this highly ambitious goal - oh sorry my mistake, apparently it is "really simple!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I do not think there is a need to rush grades & just because you haven't reached grade 8 in 1-3 years of playing an instrument, it does not mean that you are not taking music seriously. In this case it seems that someone is taking music a little too seriously! As Steve said, this kind of extremism should be ignored & I don't know of anyone who has music lessons every single day! Think of how expensive that would be! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Lisa xxx

[crazy_purple_piano_freak]

er...for normal people I'd think not. Obviously for some special cases its possible , e.g. if someone is exceptionally talented or has previous experience at a similar instrument, but in general for instruments such as piano, how on earth would anybody be able to get the right amount of experience behind their hands after only a few months? Even if they practised 10 hours a day i think they'd only scrape a pass...
Why would anyone want to do this anyway? As surely passing an exam isnt just about the grade but about the ability and achivements associated with it?

[noodle]

I think anyone (normal, that is without learning disabilities or physical problems) has the ability to reach grade 8 in 1 – 3 years. So why don’t they? It is really simple. You cannot get good at anything with 30 minutes lessons once a week and half-term breaks every two months plus summer holidays. Add to that that most students will not practise or practise wrongly and a long period of drudgery will ensue.

My students usually take grade 5 after 6 months to one year (I don’t bother with grades 1- 4 anymore) and grade 8 after 2 years. (I also don’t bother with grades 6 – 7. If you can do grade 6 you can do grade 8 ). I am not boasting, because I do not think it has much to do with me. It has to do with the way I teach. Anyone prepared to teach this way will have the same results (basically you have lessons everyday to start with)  Actually the whole “grading” of pieces is slightly crazy – mostly because degrees of difficulty are highly personal  - what is grade 1 for someone may well be grade 8 to someone else. My opinion is that a piece is never difficult. It is either easy or impossible. And lessons plus correct practice are the recipe to turn an impossible piece into an easy piece.

So I guess the ultimate answer to your question is that students who are not at grade 5 after 1 – 2 years are not really serious about it.

What does anyone else think?! Shocked me when I read it, I can tell you........

When I first read this, I thought it was unbelievable. CD it shocked me too! I'm sure it is possible to do grade 8 in 3 years but I wonder how much is sacrificed in getting there - and how many short-cuts are taken. I had a student do grade 8 viola in less than two years, but she was a grade 6 violinist when she started viola so technically she wasn't a beginner on stringed instruments. When I read this quote, I was reminded of another thread about someone who has passed grade 8 and says they 'can't play the piano' because all they have done is a succession of exam pieces!