Schubert - Impromptu No.4 In A Flat From Op.90, C# minor section Options

[IrisH - LoonY]

Well, I've managed to get as far as the C# minor section. But I have a tendancy to thump away at chords, and the melody is a single note melody at the top of the right hand which really needs to be brought out

Is there any way to to this effectively? I've tried to think of it as leaning the right hand to the right

[chopet]

Hang on a sec.......

* runs out to dining room, grabs score to check ....*

Ok, well, I only dabbled a bit in this piece myself but how about just practicing it really slowly for a while, play the melody louder than the chords, maybe practice right hand part separately. If its marked p, the melody should be p but the chords should be softer that that. Dunno if Im making any sense. Um... yah..... someone else might have more to say......

[Gae]

I've played this Impromptu quite a lot and I would just say, keep on working at your technique and independence of fingers. If you are consciously aiming to get a better balance between melody and accompaniment then that is a start at least and eventually you will get it I'm sure. I tend to play the melodic notes with a downward motion which requires independently strong fingers, while always trying to strum the inner harmonies lightly...eventually it just clicks and the melody line comes through!!! It's difficult to explain but just like pedalling and other pianistic techniques it takes years and years of practice and persistance but it will come in time.
Cant think of any other advice.

Gae

[chocolatedog]

A good technique for getting the top notes of chords coming out well is to split the chord and play the top note (or whichever note needs to be prominent) first ff and then the rest of the chord afterwards pp. (Keep hold of the top note once struck though) . At first you might need to leave a time delay between the top note and the rest of the chord to give you time to think and adjust mentally from ff to pp, but in time, try to bring the 2 closer together so the top note starts to sound like a grace note struck a split second before the rest of the chord. Another similar method is to strike the whole chord but to staccato all the notes which are less important, and leave the one important note held down, if you get my drift. And yet another is to 'ghost' the less important notes which means to finger the keys without actually depressing them properly, whilst depressing the important one. (Of the 3 I tend to use the first 2.) Hope this helps, IL.

[Frederic Chopin]

Keep your fingers very close to the keys for the chords and more power and finger movement for the melody.

[chocolatedog]

Hang on a sec.......

* runs out to dining room, grabs score to check ....*

Ok, well, I only dabbled a bit in this piece myself but how about just practicing it really slowly for a while, play the melody louder than the chords, maybe practice right hand part separately. If its marked p, the melody should be p but the chords should be softer that that. Dunno if Im making any sense. Um... yah..... someone else might have more to say......

I quite often think of the dynamics as an overall balance you want to achieve, so I might sometimes think of the melody as mp and the chords as pp.

[Dangermouse]

Hi Irish-Loony.

You should be able to get to a point where you can play a chord (in either hand!) and be able to bring out any one note of the chord. The way that this is done is to use your wrist a lot more when playing chords i.e. don't poke at them. Think of flopping from one chord to the next and use gravity and your wrist do all the work for you. After several months (and this is how long it took me when my excellent piano teacher showed me!) you'll get it fine. It is one of those things that is better shown than described...

As to playing the quiet chords - for such passages I've found that, and please forgive the terminology, caressing the notes or pawing at them gently actually produces a nice, consistent tone.

Remember when playing the long melody notes in this section to give yourself plenty of time in placing them

Hope this helps

[SteveHopwood]

IL, you can approach this aurally or technically.

I prefer the aural approach. Have in your mind the tone you want to achieve and work until you have got there. This way, your body will adopt the correct technique naturally. It will be doing some of the things I shall describe later without you having spent hours throwing your arm weight around or exhausting your little finger through overwork (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If this does not work, then try the technical approach.

In this particular passage, making the melody sing is a simple matter because the melody notes are always played without accompanying rh chords. You can try each of these three approachs, or a combination of them, depending in what suits you best:

- pure finger action. Lift your melody finger (usually the 5th) further and strike the key more quickly than when playing the accompanying chords. This will bring out a melody under any circumstances. The downside of this method is that you are striking, not caressing the keys - not good when trying to make a melody sing rather than merely louder.

- moving your wrist and elbow towards the melody note as you play it. 'Throwing' your arm weight sideways towards the note is a good way of thinking of it. This is especially useful in the second section, as melody notes climb up and down the arpeggio. It produces extra sound by virtue of using more weight.

- arm weight. If you already use the weight of you arm to produce a cantabile then you will understand the benefit. You play the melody note at the bottom of the downswing, just at the very split second you begin the upswing - your arm and wrist need to be light and flexible. This had the added advantage of taking your weight away from the subsequent accompanying chords. It is also the hardest to do - you will need to be thoroughly comfortable with melodic tone control by arm weight, to be successful.

A couple more tips:

- when playing the accompaniment chords, keep you lower arms as light as possible. Take all the weight with the muscles of your upper arm; your elbows and wrists only do just enough work to stop your hands falling off the keys.

- remember the pedal will sustain the long melody notes for you, so don't hang on to them. Let go of them and you can concentrate on the right touch for the chords. This way, you might even be able to get some gently dynamic shaping into them as well - then you are really playing this passage.

Hope this helps

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[IrisH - LoonY]

Wow, so much help! Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Shall be putting it into practise soon!

- remember the pedal will sustain the long melody notes for you, so don't hang on to them. Let go of them and you can concentrate on the right touch for the chords. This way, you might even be able to get some gently dynamic shaping into them as well - then you are really playing this passage.

Teacher is telling me to hold the note (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[SteveHopwood]

Teacher is telling me to hold the note (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

No doubt s\he has reasons. 'Tis a fact, though, that a note sustained by the pedal does not need holding on to physically. Ask him\her what is the purpose of physically holding down the note.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[IrisH - LoonY]

Teacher is telling me to hold the note (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

No doubt s\he has reasons. 'Tis a fact, though, that a note sustained by the pedal does not need holding on to physically. Ask him\her what is the purpose of physically holding down the note.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

To bring out the melody more? But the thing with this piece, its in blocks of chords so I guess you could afford to hold it physically?

[SteveHopwood]

Teacher is telling me to hold the note (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

No doubt s\he has reasons. 'Tis a fact, though, that a note sustained by the pedal does not need holding on to physically. Ask him\her what is the purpose of physically holding down the note.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

To bring out the melody more? But the thing with this piece, its in blocks of chords so I guess you could afford to hold it physically?

No reason to when the pedal is doing the work for you. All that holding the note does is rob you of flexibility when playing the subsequent chords. You would merely be overworking.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[IrisH - LoonY]

Teacher is telling me to hold the note (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

No doubt s\he has reasons. 'Tis a fact, though, that a note sustained by the pedal does not need holding on to physically. Ask him\her what is the purpose of physically holding down the note.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

To bring out the melody more? But the thing with this piece, its in blocks of chords so I guess you could afford to hold it physically?

No reason to when the pedal is doing the work for you. All that holding the note does is rob you of flexibility when playing the subsequent chords. You would merely be overworking.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ahhh yes, touché