Perfect Pitch, how you have it, how does it works. Options

[pianist_1210]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) So can you train for it?? I can only sometimes recongise what the randomly played notes are, but this is not 100% accurate (in fact, it's mostly not correct.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) I really want to have perfect pitch...

[cellocase]

I bet you're glad you don't play the clarinet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (or do you?)

Well, if I did I don't think it would be a problem. I play the cello, which means I use three clefs regularly - bass, tenor, treble - and when I see notes in those clefs, I just instantly translate them into what they should be. If I played the clarinet, I assume it would be like having "another clef" (which, granted, looks exactly like the treble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) but I would just read notes differently and expect another sound. The problem only arises when you don't expect the note coming out to be what it is!

I once had to play on a piano which was mainly in tune but a whole tone out. It made me feel physically sick.

[AnnC]

Apparently it's also quite painful. My accompanist has perfect pitch. He hears the note written, but if a piano is slightly out of tune he "hears" both together.
Useful though, during the interval in a concert, where the only "piano" available was an electric one, another "pianist" played cocktail style. The only key he could play in was C, so he kept altering the pitch button to make himself sound better. He left it up a second. Luckily, when my man came to play my introduction, he recognised this, stopped, and was able to rescue a tricky situation - especially as I was due to sing a top E flat!

How does he manage it, then? If he hears the note written, the he doesn't hear the note on the keyboard, and if an out of tune piano bothers him, then he must be constantly bothered as all pianos are, by nature, out of tune... poor soul! it mus be a confusing and lonely life!

No idea! Glad I don't have the problem! (See also cellocase's reply immediately above this.)

[anacrusis]

I bet you're glad you don't play the clarinet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (or do you?)

Well, if I did I don't think it would be a problem. I play the cello, which means I use three clefs regularly - bass, tenor, treble - and when I see notes in those clefs, I just instantly translate them into what they should be. If I played the clarinet, I assume it would be like having "another clef" (which, granted, looks exactly like the treble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) but I would just read notes differently and expect another sound. The problem only arises when you don't expect the note coming out to be what it is!

I once had to play on a piano which was mainly in tune but a whole tone out. It made me feel physically sick.

But that is exactly why playing the clarinet can be a problem. It is a transposing instrument, and you don't play the notes written. I knew someone who'd had to stop learning the clarinet because she had absolute pitch, and the difference between the written notes and the sound she made was enough to make her feel sick too.
I'm glad I don't have this problem - like Sarah, I'd rather cultivate good interval memory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[cellocase]

But that is exactly why playing the clarinet can be a problem. It is a transposing instrument, and you don't play the notes written. I knew someone who'd had to stop learning the clarinet because she had absolute pitch, and the difference between the written notes and the sound she made was enough to make her feel sick too.
I'm glad I don't have this problem - like Sarah, I'd rather cultivate good interval memory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, but the crucial thing is that you expect it to be different. The shock would be if someone was playing an instrument they expected to be at concert pitch and found out it was different!

Despite the problems, I love having perfect pitch. It's really useful in choirs, and is kinda cool sometimes - like being able to tell how high someone is singing, for instance - instead of just thinking "wow, that sounds high", I think "wow, she can sing a top B" or whatever. It also means, although I can let music wash over me without analysing it, if I wanted I could work out key changes etc. Has come in handy also when I forget names of music - I can just say, "oh, that's Mozart's Piano Concerto in....Bb major" or whatever.

I sometimes wonder how many non-musicians have perfect pitch. That's a statistic we never find out.

[anacrusis]

So if you hear an early instruments production of Bach's b minor Mass, pitched at a'= 415Hz, it doesn't bother you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) It used to be common to hear complaints about Baroque concerts and recordings being at the "wrong" pitch...

[sarah-flute]

I also have pretty good relative pitch. Between being able to pitch an A, and by extension D, G, and E, having been used to pitching those notes when tuning my violin for many years, and having good relative pitch, means I have a similar sort of ability, (I correctly guessed YAP's note, insofar as that was possible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) but I wouldn't class it as perfect pitch in the same sense as it is usually meant. It's not absolute - it's a comparison with a pitch that I remember in my head, I can't pluck a note out of thin air instantaneously - and it also varies, getting better if I play and practice more, and getting less reliable and less confident when I am not doing musical things - in both these ways (for me at least - & I expect there are other differences if I stopped to think about it) it doesn't seem to meet the criteria of perfect pitch.

Yes, perhaps that's a better way to describe it - it's relative pitch that's taught, but within an absolute framework so we can all pitch our notes (for example in sight singing, the whole class would sing the piece at the same time in the same key without a key note being sounded, but this is more because we would sing the solfa names and if you sing 'sol' then you sing a sol, not any other note.)

It's not the same as 'real' perfect pitch. I know when something is in a different key, for example, and I know what key it is being played in, but it wouldn't trouble me or make me feel sick.

Sounds like yours is more reliable than mine *grin* but a similar sort of thing. I do think that this sort of learned perfect pitch may be more useful, and certainly would cause fewer problems. I know at least one poster on here who has a learned perfect pitch that has become in effect real perfect pitch: I wonder if it's a case of some people having more or less a predisposition toward perfect pitch... so someone with a strong predisposition towards it, taught how you were, or who learned to tune to concert A for many years, would develop perfect pitch, whereas others won't develop it to such a sharp degree...

I'm waffling and not sure what I am trying to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

...like being able to tell how high someone is singing, for instance - instead of just thinking "wow, that sounds high", I think "wow, she can sing a top B" or whatever.

That's one scenario where not having perfect pitch is also quite useful, though - as a learner singer, the high notes are quite scary, and being able to sing straight from music that's at a lower pitch and essentially fool myself into thinking I am singing a 3rd lower is really helpful (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Bagpuss]

Bag's Alpha Male Jazz Cat has pefect pitch. He informs me it is possible to play (ie slap) the opening theme of Mozart's 40th symphony on my...er...southern wobbly bits in the right key....er....apparently.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I am not at all convinced that this is the best outlet for his undoubted gift...

Bag x

[YetAnotherPianist]

So if you hear an early instruments production of Bach's b minor Mass, pitched at a'= 415Hz, it doesn't bother you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) It used to be common to hear complaints about Baroque concerts and recordings being at the "wrong" pitch...

I've slowly become accustomed to being able to relax my ears to listen to A less than 440. The A=426 I put on the recordings site yesterday - I can hear it as an A if I allow myself to do so. It is harder the further one gets from 440 though - I still think of a lot of pieces I've heard at 404 being written a whole tone lower than they are.

As a result of listening to early music, my problem now of course is mainly with music which is sharp (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif).

[sarah-flute]

Bag's Alpha Male Jazz Cat has pefect pitch. He informs me it is possible to play (ie slap) the opening theme of Mozart's 40th symphony on my...er...southern wobbly bits in the right key....er....apparently.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I am not at all convinced that this is the best outlet for his undoubted gift...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) *boggle* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[bohemian]

Perfect pitch is actually very annoying. In hot weather, oboes seem to find it very hard to hit a good A at 440Hz, so orchestras quite often tune sharp, so everything constantly sounds wrong if you have perfect pitch, and I sometimes find myself playing out of tune because I'm correcting my intonation to make it equal A440, when everyone else is playing to the tuning note. Even worse is when you're not able to point it out and sort something, because you're in the audience. The only useful thing about perfect pitch is tuning your own instrument without a tuner, but tbh it's hardly any bother just to get a tuner out anyway...and it can be quite a good party trick I spose.

Faultless relative pitch is the best though.

[Cyrilla]

Bag's Alpha Male Jazz Cat has pefect pitch. He informs me it is possible to play (ie slap) the opening theme of Mozart's 40th symphony on my...er...southern wobbly bits in the right key....er....apparently.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I am not at all convinced that this is the best outlet for his undoubted gift...

Bag x

Oh, Bag, you DO make me larf...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[all ears]

Cellocase gave a very good description, I thought! She pointed out that people can have a great memory for pitch, which only becomes useful as "perfect" pitch when you learn to associate "that" sound with "this" note-name.

Sarah-flute, I think you're right, that hammering the relation between sound and note-name will develop pitch recognition skills. I recently read a thingie in Japanese which explored the fact that a fairly high proportion of Japanese musicians have perfect pitch. They concluded that it was nothing in the water or the genes, but was simply the result of pitch training at early ages (still very common in Japan). Apart from overt pitch training, the mere fact of starting music very young helps to develop a sense of pitch.

Is absolute pitch a problem? IN a Japanese book called "Absolute Pitch", violinist Midori Goto apparently said that when she went to the US, she had trouble adjusting to the US concert pitch, which is fractionally different from that used in Japan (or was at that time, anyway). She also said that relative pitch can be an excellent asset - I think we just get obsessed with the word "perfect" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Does absolute pitch itself = musicality? No...again, the Japanese obsession with pitch training led to a whole generation of schoolkids who were subjected to endless pitch RECOGNITION instead of singing. They're all old and grey by now, but throughout their lives, they've been known as the "silent generation", because they find it hard to sing in tune or remember melodies and rhythms!

Training can help your sense of pitch at any age, I think, but of course, some things are easier when you are young. Haven't tried software like Auralia, but it sounds interesting.

[Bing]

I have perfect pitch, but can adjust a quarter tone - so that if something is slightly sharp or flat, I can 'tune in'. As a pianist, the major problem I have is if the piano is a semi-tone or more out. Because the notes I'm hearing aren't the notes I'm expecting - ie I play a C, but hear a B, I start accidently playing a C#. to make it sound right. Then I'm completely thrown!

I also find it difficult accompanying transposing instruments, as what they are playing is different to what I expect to hear from the score.

On the bright side, it makes playing by ear really easy, and sightsinging is also no hassle. Used to really help during the aural side of grade exams - when the examiner used to play a C, and ask what the next note was. After a while he'd generally say 'I guess you've got perfect pitch' when he realized that I didn't need the C!

[cellocase]

Yes, aurals were much much easier than they should have been! (though a very musical friend of mine with perfect pitch managed to fail her aurals when she was rather younger - still not sure how she managed it!)
On the other hand, it was a nightmare in academic music exams doing melodic dictation at period pitch.

Sarah-flute is quite right in pointing out another problem with perfect pitch in singing. I know the range of my voice (about e below middle C to F two above middle C), so if I'm doing a warm up in a choir and the director goes above my range, I immediately know, think "I can't sing this!" and can't, whilst my friends with similar ranges are still singing on, extending their range until their voices give up, completely oblivious to what notes they are singing. However, sightsinging and difficult entries are easy....so it's all a balancing game.

I'd find it difficult to listen to music at A = 420 or whatever. I'd have to make a huge effort to not listen to my brain. I think that if I did practise listening to music at different A frequencies, though, it would be okay.

Another interesting anecdote - a tutor on a music course I was on had perfect pitch, but he grew up in a household where the piano was a semitone flat. Now, when asked to name a note, he's always a semitone out, and has to transpose it in his head. So it's obviously just a case of the name you're told to associate with that frequency of vibration (do you see the same blue as me? etc etc....)