New Player, New Violin?, starting violin Options

[lottie]

Hello!!!! At last! It's taken me weeks of problems but I am finally able to post on ABRSM and join in the forums!!!

I just started playing 6months ago and LOVE the violin. I was a clarinet teacher years ago but have taken up the violin as a new challenge. I play with a Scottish fiddle orchestra and am just starting to learn double stopping and position changes but I haven't started vibrato yet.

I'm playing a 'Zeller' but I'm finding problems using my fourth finger partly because the violin has such a thick neck and partly because my hands are quite small.

I'd like to know if anyone has any experience playing a 7/8 size violin and if they think the smaller size affects the tone? I think I'm outgrowing the Zeller already and am thinking of moving to a Gliga Gama.

Any thoughts/opinions would be of interest.

Oh and Hi again - I've been able to read the forums for ages without being able to join in and it sounds like such a friendly knowlegable place!

[elidatrading]

The 7/8 is actually quite a common size in older violins - it was known as the "ladies violin". No reason why you should notice any change in the tone, except of course the significant change going from a Zeller to a Gama.

Liz

[lottie]

I've had a 7/8 on loan for a few days now and the first thing I noticed was how much easier it was for me to play in tune... but it sounded like a 'kiddie's violin'!!!!! .. all thin and reedy.

My Dad has loaned me his full-size saying it has a more refined neck than the Zeller and I should find it sitting easier in my small hand and that's true - it's a bit more of a stretch than the 7/8 but my fourth finger is nearly bang on tune with it.

So I'm hoping the Gama has a more refined neck than my chunky Zeller!

But what to chose; a 7/8 which might have a 'smaller' sound which I don't want, or a full size that I will eventually learn to pitch properly as my hand learns to stretch???? Anybody have any thoughts???


This violin business is really complicated!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[elidatrading]

There are many factors that affect the sound of the violin. If a 7/8 of a particular model, set up in a particular way, sounds thin and reedy, then so will the full size version. A decent violin can sound like a decent violin from at least half size upwards (quarter size is more difficult)

The Gama does of course have a better neck than the zeller but I think you would be better to go for a 7/8 if you are at all worried about the stretch.

Liz

[lottie]

Thanks for your replies Liz. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm going to speak to my teacher next week and then I'll be in touch. Whatever the size I'm really excited about my new violin!!!!!!! Now I just want to find a loving home for my Zeller which was brilliant at starting me off!!!

[elidatrading]

Thanks for your replies Liz. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm going to speak to my teacher next week and then I'll be in touch. Whatever the size I'm really excited about my new violin!!!!!!! Now I just want to find a loving home for my Zeller which was brilliant at starting me off!!!

Most retailers would be happy to take violins in part exchange against an upgrade, though sometimes a better price can be had through a direct sale, particularly if the teacher knows someone who might be looking for such a violin. Zellers are popular so you should find it easy enough to sell as long as you are realistic about the price.

Liz

[AmandaL]

It is possible to find old 7/8th violins. Bohemian (on this forum) has an 18th century Tononi 7/8th violin on loan from the Benslow Music Trust.

I've currently got a 7/8th F W Chanot on approval, mulling whether to p/ex my Kloz. As far as tonal properties are concered, it defies all the laws of phsyics. It has more volume than some full-size violins I've tried. However, French instruments can be an acquired taste since the varnish tends to be spirit based rather than oil based. Spirit based being slightly harder and therefore not making the tone of the instrument quite so sweet. Having said that, many professional violinists I know who own, or have owned a French violin, say there is more scope to develop your own sound. Instruments do change over time too, with regular playing they 'open up' and become a lot more resonant. This is probably something to do with the wood fibres moving more freely as the front and back plates vibrate.

One cursary note about instrument size and small hands, remember that it's always better to fit the task to the person, rather than the person to the task. Repetitively forcing wide stretches of the fingers is extremely stressful on the tendons in the hand and wrist, especially when you think about the awkward angle at which one holds a violin anyway. Choosing a smaller instrument that feels comfortable to play is far wiser choice than ending up with a repetitive strain injury.

[lottie]

I've been looking around (on the internet because there are no violin shops where I am) and the prices for older violins go well into the thousands. Some of those violins do sound like they would be wonderful instruments though and maybe someday I'll be able to travel to try some out. I'm afraid, as a beginner, they're well beyond my budget just now. (And although I never play it now I just can't bring myself to sell my clarinet.)

It looks as though I'll go for a 7/8th and I keep hearing fabulous things about Gliga violins. I've got three violins sitting in the house just now and although I don't like its sound, it's the 7/8th I keep taking out to play because it is so comfortable in my hands.

When I played the piano many moons ago I was told I had great hands for Bach and Mozart but not for Liszt or Brahms; I can stretch an octave but my fingers must really be quite short. It's a pity I couldn't do lengthening exercises (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (I'm sure it was Bach and Haydn I played for my Grade 8 - it was a lifetime ago when I was still at school...oops!)

Anyway, thanks for your reply Amanda - the world of 'strings' is certainly fascinating!

[AmandaL]

It looks as though I'll go for a 7/8th and I keep hearing fabulous things about Gliga violins. I've got three violins sitting in the house just now and although I don't like its sound, it's the 7/8th I keep taking out to play because it is so comfortable in my hands.

When I played the piano many moons ago I was told I had great hands for Bach and Mozart but not for Liszt or Brahms; I can stretch an octave but my fingers must really be quite short.

Gliga really are as good as people say. I've got a Gliga Gama viola with only a 15 inch back, but it has a terrific sound. I only really use it for teaching and if I was going to play viola professionally, I know I would need something with an even bigger sound, but Gliga can hold their own very well in good amateur orchestras.

My hands are probably about the same size as yours. I can stretch an octave on the piano, but, only with my thumb and little finger just hanging on the ends of the keys. Fitting any extra notes in in between, with the other three fingers, would be impossible.

If a 7/8th violin is what feels comfortable for you, then go with it. It's very easy to be swayed by people saying, "oh nobody else would ever buy it because it's too small". There are enough small handed players out there who benefit from the comfort this size of violin offers - otherwise 7/8th violins (and cellos!!) wouldn't have been made. Through bitter experience I know there are things I can manage on a 7/8th violin that I struggle with on a larger instrument. Being able to play at speed and move around the fingerboard swiftly is extremely important. If the instrument is too big to enable the freedom of the hand, then it will stilt your progress and general ability to play certain types of music.

I wish you all the best in your violin playing!

[Tess]

I've had a 7/8 on loan for a few days now and the first thing I noticed was how much easier it was for me to play in tune... but it sounded like a 'kiddie's violin'!!!!! .. all thin and reedy.

My Dad has loaned me his full-size saying it has a more refined neck than the Zeller and I should find it sitting easier in my small hand and that's true - it's a bit more of a stretch than the 7/8 but my fourth finger is nearly bang on tune with it.

So I'm hoping the Gama has a more refined neck than my chunky Zeller!

But what to chose; a 7/8 which might have a 'smaller' sound which I don't want, or a full size that I will eventually learn to pitch properly as my hand learns to stretch???? Anybody have any thoughts???


This violin business is really complicated!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hi Lottie,

I am not a violinist, I must confess. Well, like Bo and AmandaL, my girl is also using a 7/8 violin. Maybe she has big hands for her age. It is an old French one and no, it does not sound kiddish/bright at all. It has a lovely tone! If your 7/8 feels comfortable, then by all means as AmandaL advised, go with it. If it sounds horrid to you, try changing strings, might work??? If it doesn't - I'm just throwing out ideas here - get another 7/8. No point changing to a full size if the 7/8 itself feels comfy.

Best wishes,
T (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[lottie]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I've ordered my Gliga 7/8 violin!!!!!


Now how do I contain myself for the few weeks it will take to arrive????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Malone]

I used to play a 7/8 and it was really old. It has a peice of paper inside that says repaired 1901. We got it at a local auction for £5 but it was really a flat pack when we bought it! I now play a strange ol 9/8 violin which was found in a garage in the west coast and set up for me by a lovely old man who has sadly now passed on. It has a lovely open and loud tone. We think it could be early 60s, its a bit wonky and it looks like its hand carved.

I know the feeling lottie having to wait for a new instrument - I had to wait ages for my new flute, I thought that I could forget about it till it arrived, but no luck, I thought about it every day!

[elisabeth_rb]

I've got a Gliga Gama viola with only a 15 inch back, but it has a terrific sound. I only really use it for teaching and if I was going to play viola professionally, I know I would need something with an even bigger sound, but Gliga can hold their own very well in good amateur orchestras.

JUst out of pure curiosity, what do you think would fit the bill for a 'bigger sound'? Something bigger and/or a higher range of instrument?

[all ears]

Elisabeth, lots of Japanese women play 7/8 instruments, and you can certainly find good ones, though it may take you a while.

Big sound...I'm sure others can tell you more, but apart from the tendency for "flattish" violins to be louder than "fat" violins, a poor set-up will really affect both tone and volume, so shop at a stringed instrument specialty shop if possible.

[lottie]

Elisabeth, lots of Japanese women play 7/8 instruments, and you can certainly find good ones, though it may take you a while.

Big sound...I'm sure others can tell you more, but apart from the tendency for "flattish" violins to be louder than "fat" violins, a poor set-up will really affect both tone and volume, so shop at a stringed instrument specialty shop if possible.

By 'set-up' do you mean the bridge and strings etc?? Does that mean you can make a real change to the sound by changing these?

How much does it cost, on average, to have a luthier change the bridge and strings????