Climate Change?, Is it for real Options

[chocolatedog]

There was a brilliant programme on channel 4 very recently which said in fact the earth yes, is presently warming up but we're still nowhere as warm as we were in the middle ages. We're on the up after a mini ice-age which lasted until the beginning of this century, and a lot of scientists also maintain that in fact CO2 is not linked to warming - in fact the opposite is true - usually the CO2 levels are on the way down rather than up during warming cycles......... it was a very interesting programme. They also said that with a single volcanic eruption, more CO2 is released than all the factories of the world in one year..... (or something similar.........) And that the polar icecaps have always grown and shrunk in cycles through the years............

I saw that, and it certainly was interesting and pointed out that climate change may be attributed to the sun's activity rather than CO2, since carbon dioxide only makes up about 0.03% of the atmostphere.

I did a case study on that, and got 100% for it. I discovered that the sun accounts for a minute amount of global warming, and that 0,03% is easily enough. Don't be fooled by pretty statistics.

And don't be fooled by media and political hype.........the earth has been much warmer in the past - and all without factories and airoplanes and cars.............

[bobifier]

There was a brilliant programme on channel 4 very recently which said in fact the earth yes, is presently warming up but we're still nowhere as warm as we were in the middle ages. We're on the up after a mini ice-age which lasted until the beginning of this century, and a lot of scientists also maintain that in fact CO2 is not linked to warming - in fact the opposite is true - usually the CO2 levels are on the way down rather than up during warming cycles......... it was a very interesting programme. They also said that with a single volcanic eruption, more CO2 is released than all the factories of the world in one year..... (or something similar.........) And that the polar icecaps have always grown and shrunk in cycles through the years............

I saw that, and it certainly was interesting and pointed out that climate change may be attributed to the sun's activity rather than CO2, since carbon dioxide only makes up about 0.03% of the atmostphere.

I did a case study on that, and got 100% for it. I discovered that the sun accounts for a minute amount of global warming, and that 0,03% is easily enough. Don't be fooled by pretty statistics.

And don't be fooled by media and political hype.........the earth has been much warmer in the past - and all without factories and airoplanes and cars.............

To be fair, at the time, we didn't have the population explosion we do now, and it wasn't going to cause us half as much damage as it will now.

[onmageetar]

To be fair, at the time, we didn't have the population explosion we do now, and it wasn't going to cause us half as much damage as it will now.

But it was warmer in the past, without humans adding to the mix so how did it manage to get to that point without our CO2 emissions?
Interestingly from the programme link, it provides evidence that a rise of CO2 is a symptom of a warming climate and not a cause.

[bobifier]

To be fair, at the time, we didn't have the population explosion we do now, and it wasn't going to cause us half as much damage as it will now.

But it was warmer in the past, without humans adding to the mix so how did it manage to get to that point without our CO2 emissions?
Interestingly from the programme link, it provides evidence that a rise of CO2 is a symptom of a warming climate and not a cause.

It is both. CO2 is proven to have the warming effect in tests, but it is also dissolved in oceans and frozen in arctic ice. As the oceans get warmer, they can retain less of it, so it escapes and adds to the effect. As the arctic melts, it also releases CO2.

[onmageetar]

It is both. CO2 is proven to have the warming effect in tests, but it is also dissolved in oceans and frozen in arctic ice. As the oceans get warmer, they can retain less of it, so it escapes and adds to the effect. As the arctic melts, it also releases CO2.

But it isn't the cause of warming. According to the evidence the rise in CO2 emissions has approx an 800 year lag... ie the co2 doesn't lead the temperature rise, the temperature rise leads the co2. Which I might add your own argument would suggest as well.
Human co2 emissions are insignificant compared with all the other sources of co2.
Mount st Helens, everyday, pumps twice as much pollution into the atmosphere as all of Washington state factories combined . Mount Etna produces 100 times as much sulphur dioxide as mt St Helens.. Why then are humans the sole cause of this so called global warming?
And still it as been much warmer in the past than it is today which cannot be blamed on human interference.

[bobifier]

It is both. CO2 is proven to have the warming effect in tests, but it is also dissolved in oceans and frozen in arctic ice. As the oceans get warmer, they can retain less of it, so it escapes and adds to the effect. As the arctic melts, it also releases CO2.

But it isn't the cause of warming. According to the evidence the rise in CO2 emissions has approx an 800 year lag... ie the co2 doesn't lead the temperature rise, the temperature rise leads the co2. Which I might add your own argument would suggest as well.
Human co2 emissions are insignificant compared with all the other sources of co2.
Mount st Helens, everyday, pumps twice as much pollution into the atmosphere as all of Washington state factories combined . Mount Etna produces 100 times as much sulphur dioxide as mt St Helens.. Why then are humans the sole cause of this so called global warming?
And still it as been much warmer in the past than it is today which cannot be blamed on human interference.

Your Washington State thing is a statistic. I don't hold with such statistics.

It takes considerable less than 800 years for CO2 to reach the atmosphere. From there, it absorbs radiation from the Earth within, well, under a minute, and re-radiates it in a similar amount of time. It takes less that 24 hours for each particle to have an effect.

Sulphur dioxide is not a greenhouse gas.

It has been much warmer, but another worrying fact is that the amount of CO2 being released is currently increasing, and on a steep curve. Though the Earth may have been hotter in the past, it will very soon be reaching new highs if not dealt with.

And finally, let us say there is a 50/50 chance as to who is right. If we assume you are right, we will do not much. If you are right, that will be fine. If you are not, we will all be severely disabled.
However, if I am right, we will deal with it. Then, if it transpires you were right after all, all will be well because we will have done no harm. If it turns out I am right, all will be well because it's been dealt with.

[Rock Star Guy]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

[bobifier]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

That is one document. The extent of my knowledge, such that it is, was gathered from about 20, and the general consensus was that global warming is everything I said it is.

[Rock Star Guy]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

That is one document. The extent of my knowledge, such that it is, was gathered from about 20, and the general consensus was that global warming is everything I said it is.

NASA, The European Space Agency, The Japanese Space Agency and all the major universities have reported last year that the sun hit its biggest cycle in the last 11 and a half years and it didn't cool down, it's just increasing its emissions. The sun does this, they've only been registering and they've only been registering and metering it for 100 years.

One UN report says that climate change is 6% due to humans. I've not seen it but it sounds a lot more realistic.

[bobifier]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

That is one document. The extent of my knowledge, such that it is, was gathered from about 20, and the general consensus was that global warming is everything I said it is.

NASA, The European Space Agency, The Japanese Space Agency and all the major universities have reported last year that the sun hit its biggest cycle in the last 11 and a half years and it didn't cool down, it's just increasing its emissions. The sun does this, they've only been registering and they've only been registering and metering it for 100 years.

One UN report says that climate change is 6% due to humans. I've not seen it but it sounds a lot more realistic.

Do these reports of the sun's emmissions contain comparisons to CO2? I don't dispute that the sun is getting hotter (it is at its hottest in 8,000 years), but it is entirely possible, and, apparently, generally agreed that this contributes little towards global warming.

[chocolatedog]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

That is one document. The extent of my knowledge, such that it is, was gathered from about 20, and the general consensus was that global warming is everything I said it is.

NASA, The European Space Agency, The Japanese Space Agency and all the major universities have reported last year that the sun hit its biggest cycle in the last 11 and a half years and it didn't cool down, it's just increasing its emissions. The sun does this, they've only been registering and they've only been registering and metering it for 100 years.

One UN report says that climate change is 6% due to humans. I've not seen it but it sounds a lot more realistic.

Do these reports of the sun's emmissions contain comparisons to CO2? I don't dispute that the sun is getting hotter (it is at its hottest in 8,000 years), but it is entirely possible, and, apparently, generally agreed that this contributes little towards global warming.

"Generally agreed"???? Then why are so many scientists disputing that fact???

[bobifier]

I'm an environmentalist but I have to say, the whole solar system is warming, moons that were ice around saturn are melting and now have liquid methane oceans.

There are very serious environmental issues like all the toxic sludge corporations are allowed to dump in the ocean, GM foods contaminating natural ecosystems, deforrestation, the economic growth obsession, checmicals killing all the soil bu unsustainable farming, nuclear proliferation, etc. etc. etc.

They hardly get a mention compared to "Global Warming" which is no even caused by carbon emissions (see this documentary: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...warming+swindle )


I think it's a smoke screen (if you'll pardon the pun)

That is one document. The extent of my knowledge, such that it is, was gathered from about 20, and the general consensus was that global warming is everything I said it is.

NASA, The European Space Agency, The Japanese Space Agency and all the major universities have reported last year that the sun hit its biggest cycle in the last 11 and a half years and it didn't cool down, it's just increasing its emissions. The sun does this, they've only been registering and they've only been registering and metering it for 100 years.

One UN report says that climate change is 6% due to humans. I've not seen it but it sounds a lot more realistic.

Do these reports of the sun's emmissions contain comparisons to CO2? I don't dispute that the sun is getting hotter (it is at its hottest in 8,000 years), but it is entirely possible, and, apparently, generally agreed that this contributes little towards global warming.

"Generally agreed"???? Then why are so many scientists disputing that fact???

By generally agreed, I mean there appears to be a majority in that direction. 1,000 scientists could despute it, but if 10,000 more agreed with it, then I would consider that generally agreed. And I said apparently. This means from what I can tell. I have not, of course, asked each individual scientist in the field of climate change and related subjects.

[Rock Star Guy]

to be honest I think we need to be more worried about emissions that contribute to acid rain than CO2 emissions,

the level of CO2 in the atmosphere increases world food production (plants take in more, so does plankton in the sea which fish then feed on, etc. etc.) water vapour is a more problematic greenhouse gas than CO2 (if they really do have an affect)

the sun is getting hotter (it is at its hottest in 8,000 years)... contributes little towards global warming.

To say the heat of the sun doesn't affect the heat of this planet is complete anathema.

[bobifier]

to be honest I think we need to be more worried about emissions that contribute to acid rain than CO2 emissions,

the level of CO2 in the atmosphere increases world food production (plants take in more, so does plankton in the sea which fish then feed on, etc. etc.) water vapour is a more problematic greenhouse gas than CO2 (if they really do have an affect)

the sun is getting hotter (it is at its hottest in 8,000 years)... contributes little towards global warming.

To say the heat of the sun doesn't affect the heat of this planet is complete anathema.

I think we should be worried about anything that is going to make beggars of us all, personally!

That would be why I didn't say that the heat of the sun doesn't affect the heat of the planet, then...

There are several things that can assist in world food production (and death of plants by heat is not amongst them) that are easy, cheap and don't kill us at the same time.

[onmageetar]

Your Washington State thing is a statistic. I don't hold with such statistics.

No it isn't a statistic.. Mt St Helens activity is measured by the US geological survey. In the current (warming) climate, almost every factory in the west is aware of their emissions

It has been much warmer, but another worrying fact is that the amount of CO2 being released is currently increasing, and on a steep curve. Though the Earth may have been hotter in the past, it will very soon be reaching new highs if not dealt with.

I don't believe that to be true. It as been hotter...A full 2 degrees hotter in Northern Europe... You are falling into the "Hottest day ever" trap.. Who are we to define "ever" and "new highs" when we have no comprehension of the time scales involved

By generally agreed, I mean there appears to be a majority in that direction. 1,000 scientists could despute it, but if 10,000 more agreed with it, then I would consider that generally agreed. And I said apparently. This means from what I can tell. I have not, of course, asked each individual scientist in the field of climate change and related subjects.

Scientists have disagreed with the global warming theory only to find their names linked with documents supporting the theory. Indeed the threat of legal action was looming if names were not removed from said documents. To quote "The greenhouse effect is seen as a religion and if you don't agree, you are a heretic."

However, if I am right, we will deal with it. Then, if it transpires you were right after all, all will be well because we will have done no harm.

But we are harming people..Firstly we are going to be taxing people for not being green. Quite how taxing a man who has to drive to work at 4 am because there is no other way to get to work, is going to help our planet eludes me.
Preventing developing countries from moving on and making a better life for their people isn't going to benefit developing nations in the slightest. Nations who's life expectancy is 40 years old because they don't enjoy everything we in the west have at our disposal. We are busy telling these countries that they can't use coal or gas to fire power stations because it's not green. They can't use nuclear power because they might just make a bomb, and the west would really frown on that.... We are busy telling them that they will have to use wind wave and solar energy to get by whilst we sit at home watching sky with the central heating on.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being more planet friendly.... But all this world is going to end stuff isn't the way forward and is scare mongering