Relative Minors And Arising Problems Options

[*Pianola*]

Remember that in the exam, she would be allowed a piece of scrap paper, so any patterns regarding key signatures that she would have learned she would be able to jot them down before begining on the exam paper.

[susiejean]

Ignore this one: I typed send (or submit or whatever) twice too quickly!

OK, I'm now ignorant: What is the Father Charles Ryhme?

I don't have any problems with relative minors, so I've forgotten how I learned it in the first place: Once the building is up you take away the scaffolding I suppose.

Father Charles is the order of the sharps - Father Charles Goes Down And Eats Bananas (or some variation of that -)
I quite like Father Christmas Gave Dad An Electric Blanket - which someone else on the forums quoted a while back - sorry I can't remember who to attribute it to. It's particularly neat because there's a reverse one for the flats - Blanket Explodes And Dad Gets Cold Feet.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I like your building / scaffolding analogy. I think with keys and theory questions we teachers have the whole of the jigsaw puzzle on view and it's knowing which bit of the picture they need at any one time that's tricky. If you want the relative minor you go down three semitones. If you want the tonic minor you add on three flats or take off three sharps etc etc - it depends on what the question is how you need to get there.

I had never heard this particular version and laughed uproariosly. I only learned the rather boring Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle for sharps and reverse for the flats. A problem I do have with many pupils is that they know the rhymes, for this and the lines and spaces, but get it all round the wrong way! On a simalar vein to the above rhyme, an adult pupil introduced me recently to 'Great Big Dumplings For All' for the left hand lines which was a new one on me!

[sarah-flute]

I think the electric blanket one is absolute genius (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[susiejean]

What I do with my students is to encourage them to construct the scales for themselves, from first principles. This is how we do it;

Take some manuscript paper and write out the C major scale.
Take the 5th note (G). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (F#) . Scale is G. Sharp is F#.
Take the 5th note (D). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (C#) . Scale is D. Sharps are F#,C#.
Take the 5th note (A). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (G#) . Scale is A. Sharps are F#,C#, G#.
Take the 5th note (E). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (D#) . Scale is E. Sharps are F#,C#, G#,D#.
Take the 5th note (B). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (A#) . Scale is B. Sharps are F#,C#,G#,D#,A#.
Take the 5th note (F#). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (E#) . Scale is F#. Sharps are F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#.
Take the 5th note (C#). Write out a scale. Sharpen the seventh (B#) . Scale is C#. Sharps are F#,C#,G#,D#,A#,E#,B#.

Write out another C major scale.
Take the 4th note (F). Write out a scale. Flatten the fourth (Bb). Scale is F, Flat is Bb.
Take the 4th note (Bb). Write out a scale. Flatten the fourth (Eb). Scale is Bb, Flats are Bb.Eb.
Take the 4th note (Eb). Write out a scale. Flatten the fourth (Ab). Scale is Eb, Flats are Bb.Eb,Ab.
Take the 4th note (Ab). Write out a scale. Faltten the fourth (Db). Scale is Ab, Flats are Bb,Eb,Ab,Db.
Take the 4th note (Db). Write out a scale. Faltten the fourth (Gb). Scale is Db, Flats are Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb.
Take the 4th note (Gb). Write out a scale. Faltten the fourth (Cb). Scale is Gb, Flats are Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb.
Take the 4th note (Cb). Write out a scale. Faltten the fourth (Fb). Scale is Cb, Flats are Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb,Fb.

Only then, once the student has witten them all out, do I then go back explain that they only need to learn 2 rules. We then start looking at the patterns and recite the infamous 'Father Charles' mnemonic.

For minors, another simple rule can easily be created;
'Take a major scale (eg C), leave the key signature the same and write out a scale from the 6th note. Scale is A minor natural'.

For harmonic minor;
'Sharpen the 7th.'

For melodic minor;
'Sharpen the 6th and 7th ascending, un-sharpen them descending.'

So there you have it. All you need to know about scales and key signatures on one sheet of A4!

(You can create new rules for different modes using the same as above).

Please check the above, I wrote this out in a hurry - there may be mistakes!

Many thanks to everyone for their help. I used the above method in the first instance as I thought it was a great system and if she wrote this out a couple of times, that she would see the pattern and maybe even be able to scribble it out quickly on the scrap paper at the start of the exam, therefore having something solid to refer to for many of the questions. Sadly she didn't see it this way and thought the whole thing was boring. I don't think I can win with this one. Arghh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[jennthesaxplayer]

No no! Look at this:


It is the circle of fourths + fifths written in a line form.

F B E A D G C


start at the f for flats, and the the other end at C for sharps!

Example - C = no sharps,
G major = 1 sharps,
D major = 2!! etc. All your pupil has to do is count up the line to how many sharps there is on the page. It is the same with the flats aswell

[susiejean]

No no! Look at this:


It is the circle of fourths + fifths written in a line form.

F B E A D G C


start at the f for flats, and the the other end at C for sharps!

Example - C = no sharps,
G major = 1 sharps,
D major = 2!! etc. All your pupil has to do is count up the line to how many sharps there is on the page. It is the same with the flats aswell

I'm going to try this out on Thurs. It looks a bit more pallatable, but it depends if she's up for it. She hates theory so much, and is noticibly bored throughout the lesson, often not even looking at the books or my explanations. God knows, I sometimes think she's hoping somone will hand her a pass as a present and all will be well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

[sbhoa]

I'm going to try this out on Thurs. It looks a bit more pallatable, but it depends if she's up for it. She hates theory so much, and is noticibly bored throughout the lesson, often not even looking at the books or my explanations. God knows, I sometimes think she's hoping somone will hand her a pass as a present and all will be well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

If she's got grade 5 practical is she very unsure of her scales to play too?
Have you suggested practising scales in related pairs to help to get them fixed in her mind?
Do you ask questions about the music she is playing to link the theory with the practical? It might not be a popular thing to do but sometimes it's easier in the end for them to give in and start using their brains.....

[sonataform]

It might not be a popular thing to do but sometimes it's easier in the end for them to give in and start using their brains.....

Hee hee. This reminds me of a book on education I was shown by a friend who's a primary school teacher: How To Get The B*ggers To Think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sarah-flute]

Hee hee. This reminds me of a book on education I was shown by a friend who's a primary school teacher: How To Get The B*ggers To Think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) That's fantastic!

[susiejean]

I'm going to try this out on Thurs. It looks a bit more pallatable, but it depends if she's up for it. She hates theory so much, and is noticibly bored throughout the lesson, often not even looking at the books or my explanations. God knows, I sometimes think she's hoping somone will hand her a pass as a present and all will be well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

If she's got grade 5 practical is she very unsure of her scales to play too?
Have you suggested practising scales in related pairs to help to get them fixed in her mind?
Do you ask questions about the music she is playing to link the theory with the practical? It might not be a popular thing to do but sometimes it's easier in the end for them to give in and start using their brains.....

I think this may be part of the problem. She can play them fine, and can work out the key signatures no problem, but take her away from the piano and she's lost. I did tell to draw out a wee keyboard on a bit of paper, but I don't think she does it. If she can't physically hear the scale then she's not able to visualise it in her head. Thats why she needs to be able to approach it in a more mathematical manner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)