3rd Position Encouragement Options

[Artfulzebra]

Hi folks,

My daughter recently started working towards her grade 3 violin exam and is tackling 3rd position. She's finding it really difficult and no amount of encouragement seems to help. ;o( Can anyone suggest any ways I can help her to regain her enjoyment of playing and/or any 3rd position tips?

Thanks

Maz

*edit* sorry, I think this is probably on the wrong forum but I can't work out how to move it to the strings one!

[violincjj]

Play some easy pieces by ear in 3rd position.

It takes time to get used to the new finger spacings so listen like mad, stop and fix the note if it sounds wrong and hang in there!

[Minstrel]

Have you seen 'Nifty Shifts'?
I use it quite a lot to give children the idea of playing familiar pieces in 3rd position.
The layout is quite friendy too.

[Clari Nicki1]

My daughter has just started shifting to 3rd position and has a study book with easy pieces that require a shift. She has also been taught an easy tune by ear that requires her to shift quickly and rapidly. She enjoys playing it on each string.... At first she just played open string then 3rd finger in 1st position, then open string and 1st finger in 3rd position. Then open string again. She continued until it was perfectly in tune and she could shift well.
She found it hard when her wrist position wasn't good.
She isn't preparing grade 3 pieces yet... as I think you need to be able to shift confidently before that.

I have to say my daughter sometimes moans "I have to play this in 3rd position when it'd be really easy in first...ARGHHHHH"

Good luck to your daughter.

[SatayPiano]

study book, definately
they're incredibly boring, but most of the pieces force you to use certain positions
if its just 3rd position she's having trouble with, don't worry, there's always way to much reliance on 1st and 3rd anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Morgan's Munchkin]

I agree that just practicing it with some simple pieces is the key. My violin teacher has now taken me right back to basics. I'm working on grade 4 pieces, but am still scared of shifting, so she has me playing nursery rhymes etc in 3rd position.

To be honest though, I would much rather stay in my comfort zone and play everything in 1st position!!

[sarah-flute]

Crumbs, I didn't remember 3rd position coming in that early.

Mind you we had a huge emphasis on aural and stuff, so maybe it just didn't seem that big a deal as we could hear what was going on.

It was always 2nd and 4th position that phased me most...

[musical_K]

Crumbs, I didn't remember 3rd position coming in that early.
..... It was always 2nd and 4th position that phased me most...

Almost word for word what I was going to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If it's possible to find a piece/study that would be hideous to play in 1st position (i.e with lots of evil string-crossings etc?), but really easy in 3rd then that would be good. That's what my teacher got me to do, (but of course I can't remember the name of the piece or composer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ).
I found it really good because with my grade 3 pieces I always thought "what's the point of playing this in 3rd when it's so much easier in 1st???" as well.

And unfortunatly (prepare yourself for the cliché)........practice makes perfect. (*cringe* I sound like my mum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[sarah-flute]

Crumbs, I didn't remember 3rd position coming in that early.
..... It was always 2nd and 4th position that phased me most...

Almost word for word what I was going to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If it's possible to find a piece/study that would be hideous to play in 1st position (i.e with lots of evil string-crossings etc?), but really easy in 3rd then that would be good.

^ really good idea.

[Maizie]

If it's possible to find a piece/study that would be hideous to play in 1st position (i.e with lots of evil string-crossings etc?), but really easy in 3rd then that would be good.

There are two books you can get for cello, one is Go Fourth and one is Taylor-Made Pieces (the composer is Lorna Taylor, hence the 'Taylor-Made'). These books involve no position shifts, but are pieces written for whichever position it's dealing with, with the aim of teaching and reinforcing fingerboard geography. Go Fourth is 4th position, Taylor-made does 1/2, lower 2nd, upper 2nd, 3rd and extensions!

Maybe some of the violinists in here can say if there are violin equivalent books/exercises/pieces/etc?

[STRINGMUM]

When no2 started on 3rd position as well as using books published with 3rd position his teacher took some of his favourite earlier studies and pieces and put some shifts into them as he knew what they should sound like. As previous posters have said practise makes perfect. She'll soon get the hang of it.

[Andromeda_Aiken]

My teacher has always told me when shifting to the 3rd position, wrist must touch the violin but remember how much your hand has to tilt back. In this way, you train your muscles to remember. I like 4th position though, I just need to shift till my wrist touches the violin and without tilting of my hand and I'm there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Schwournes]

If she plays in 3rd position more she will get more used to it.
So if she is playing any part that is easy she could try play it all in 3rd position, unless of course it goes below middle C.

=======

Schwournes

[Minstrel]

Does her teacher teach shifting straight away or is your daughter learning to play in 3rd position first - with easy/familiar tunes to start with, as some posters have suggested?

Different teachers use different methods. For what it's worth, I try to break down the process and get pupils used to the idea and feel of 3rd position first and only introduce the idea of moving between positions when they are playing comfortably in 3rd.

Does your daughter appreciate that her fingers need to be closer together as she goes higher up the violin? This is because the lenth of the string that can vibrate is effectively shorter, rather like on a smaller violin. To make this part of her learning fun, do you still have a smaller violin that she can have a go on to remember what it felt like?

Another fun idea, especially if she likes playing by ear, is to have a go at playing some well known but simple tunes in 3rd position - ones I frequently use in lessons are Ode to Joy, Kum ba Ya, Morning has Broken, but you can easily find ones that your daughter is familiar with. Playing by ear she is less likely to get bogged down by the different fingerings required and can just concentrate on increasing her familiarity with a different part of the violin. Don't forget to try diffent strings!

Just had another thought (but do check with her teacher first). To help my younger ones starting out in 3rd position I put a small sticker (coloured dot - colour chosen by student!) in between the D and A strings where the 1st finger goes in 3rd position. This is not really big enough to use all the time but is a useful reminder and confidence builder.

Not all teachers are sticker fans, but for a nervous positionwork starter it might just do the trick.

[Ellie Rose]

Hi everyone! I'm the daughter that is the subject of this thread, and I've recently joined because my mum thinks this site can be helpful for me. And it is! Thanks for all the helpfulness!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)