Grade 5 Theory, Transposing poser Options

[susiejean]

Can someone please remind of something I've clearly forgotten. If you are transposing from G major down to F major for instance, and the G major piece contains an A sharp, does it then transpose down to an A flat, or a G sharp. My pupil and I are having an argument about this as I say you can't go down to a sharp and she says it was a sharp for a start so it must be a sharp again. I've had to hold off marking the whole section as I've got myself into a complete curfuffle! Help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[sbhoa]

G sharp.
If it raises the note by a semitone it must do the same thing in the transposed version.

[petrat]

There is a very easy way to do this. Write out the notes in the old scale of G major and underneath write what they will be written as in the new scale. If the note given to transpose is A it will have to become G in the new transposed version. If it it A sharp it will become G sharp as Sbhoa rightly says.

[susiejean]

Thanks for clearing that up. Quite a few sections in my G 5 workbook were never marked, so I can't use them as reference and this was one of them. Thank God I checked because it turns out I did that entire section wrong myself. I think I'll blame this for only getting 88 out of 100!
G5 theory...........urghhh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

[JohnS]

My pupil and I are having an argument about this as I say you can't go down to a sharp and she says it was a sharp for a start so it must be a sharp again.

It's not always true that the accidental stays the same though. For instance in your G major example, if there was a C#, this would go to B natural in F major. You have to think what the accidental did to the note (as sbhoa says). You then do the same to the tranposed note, using which ever accidental is necessary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JulieCSM]

Best to remember that the lettername would always be one lower in this instance. So your A whatever would ALWAYS go down to a G whatever, then you figure out the accidental to make the interval right.

So here you're going down a major second, so you obviously wouldn't go from A# to Gb, as that isnt a major 2nd. It has to be G#.

If you were transposing down a perfect fifth, from G major to C major, then your A# here would go to a D#.

My problem with tranposing wasn't that I couldn't transpose, that's the easy bit, it's remembering which way various transposing instruments go. If you said, transpose this down a diminished 4th, I could do that no probs. But if you said, transpose this passage for a Clarinet in A, I wouldn't be able to remember if you went up or down or how far whichever way. I always have to look it up. And I did my G5 theory 23 years ago!!

[maggiemay]

My problem with tranposing wasn't that I couldn't transpose, that's the easy bit, it's remembering which way various transposing instruments go. If you said, transpose this down a diminished 4th, I could do that no probs. But if you said, transpose this passage for a Clarinet in A, I wouldn't be able to remember if you went up or down or how far whichever way.

Yes - this rings bells with me too !

[earplugs]

Transposition and putting the clocks forward or back! Definitely two of the most complicated things the human brain has to cope with.

[BusyBee]

Transposition and putting the clocks forward or back! Definitely two of the most complicated things the human brain has to cope with.

I remember the clocks by 'springing' forward in March and 'fall' (Amercian term for Autumn) back in October. Not sure if this helps transposition though! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[sbhoa]

My problem with tranposing wasn't that I couldn't transpose, that's the easy bit, it's remembering which way various transposing instruments go. If you said, transpose this down a diminished 4th, I could do that no probs. But if you said, transpose this passage for a Clarinet in A, I wouldn't be able to remember if you went up or down or how far whichever way.

Yes - this rings bells with me too !

But at grade 5 this isn't a problem as they tell you the direction and interval of transposition.

[JulieCSM]

My problem with tranposing wasn't that I couldn't transpose, that's the easy bit, it's remembering which way various transposing instruments go. If you said, transpose this down a diminished 4th, I could do that no probs. But if you said, transpose this passage for a Clarinet in A, I wouldn't be able to remember if you went up or down or how far whichever way.

Yes - this rings bells with me too !

But at grade 5 this isn't a problem as they tell you the direction and interval of transposition.

Yes, that is true. Doesn't help when you have to write for transposing instruments for composition class at uni though.

Mind you, now blessed Finale does all the hard work for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[cat_loves_flute]

My problem with tranposing wasn't that I couldn't transpose, that's the easy bit, it's remembering which way various transposing instruments go. If you said, transpose this down a diminished 4th, I could do that no probs. But if you said, transpose this passage for a Clarinet in A, I wouldn't be able to remember if you went up or down or how far whichever way.

Yes - this rings bells with me too !

But at grade 5 this isn't a problem as they tell you the direction and interval of transposition.

Yes, that is true. Doesn't help when you have to write for transposing instruments for composition class at uni though.

Mind you, now blessed Finale does all the hard work for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does a clarinet in A go up a 3rd? (I'm taking gr5 n testing myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[earplugs]

Does a clarinet in A go up a 3rd? (I'm taking gr5 n testing myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Part of the problem is that they can ask "rewrite this so that if played on a clarinet in A it will sound at concert pitch" - up a minor 3rd, or "this is for clarinet in A rewrite it as it would sound at concert pitch" - down a minor 3rd. Or other such wording.

But as a few people have said, don't panic at grade 5 they tell you which way and how far to transpose it so you can ignore the rest of the wording and don't have to learn the pitches of all sorts of instruments.

Best of luck to all those taking grade 5 (or any other grade theory) this session.

[gavantia]

Is there anyone on here from Wolverhampton who has got their results yet?