Alarm Bells Ringing About An Odd Pupil Advice Please. Options

[adagiok5]

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I have just taken on an adult pupil that my piano tuners gave my details to. I have had over 20 years experience of teaching the piano to all ages and standards but this pupil is puzzling me. From his original phone call I thought he was a little odd. He told me he had just brought a brand new piano and wanted to take up piano lessons in his retirement (nothing odd there). I then asked him the usual questions such as have you had lessons before to which he informed me he had not. He then said he had played around with the piano and found it hard to reach a 10th to which I replied this was not a problem as a beginner does not need to reach a 10th (this seemed a strange thing for someone to ask who had not played the piano before). So I told him that I had one space available of which he said was suitable for him.

In the meantime I sorted out some appropriate material for an adult beginner. The day arrived when he came for his first lesson he was very nervous so I tried to put him at his ease. I showed him how the piano worked and explained about the pedals to which he said he had no knowledge. Next I asked him if he was able to play anything to which he replied he could and proceeded to play Schumann's The Poet Speaks. As you can imagine I was quite shocked by this bearing in mind he was an absolute beginner he was also using the sustaining pedal rather well for a person who had no knowledge of the pedals. He was not able to play the piece to the end as he said he needed the music unfortunately I did not have a copy to hand at the time. I asked him how he had learnt the piece and he said he had listened to Alfred Cortot play it a few times and then purchased the score worked out the fingering and played it(has anyone else heard of anyone doing such a thing)? By this time his half hour was up so acting quickly I sent him home with a Grade 2 Improve Your Sight Reading Book as he said he had a very limited knowledge of musical notation and a Hal Leonard Book 5 Tutor book asking him if he could see if he could learn the first piece in the book.

After he went home I was very puzzled and felt I was not being told the whole truth. After thinking about the situation I thought perhaps I had not understood his needs properly so as I had a couple of cancelelations the following week decided I would ring him to ask him if I could spend a bit longer with him to try and work out where he was going with the piano and also if I would be able to help him ( a get out clause for me I thought in the event of not understanding him).

He turned up this week having learnt the Hal Leonard piece note and time perfect with the pedal (this piece has taken some of my pupils who have been learning 3 or so years a while to master let alone a beginner). I had also found my copy of The Poet Speaks so I asked him if he could play this to me again with the music this time. It started of well then I noticed his hands shaking and then he flew in to a rage took his hands of the keys and began slapping his legs and shouting with rage. Being more than a little alarmed I told him that I understood how difficult it was to play in front of a stranger and I was not there to judge him but help him. I decided it was best to move on from the piece and asked him how he had got on with the sight reading book he said it was ok so I picked a piece out from the section he had been working on I asked him about the time signature and how he would count the piece and he said he did not do counting!! He started to play the piece then the shaking hands started again he stopped stood up and ran round in a circle in my music room shouting no, no, no. I asked him very calmly to sit down ( by this time I was feeling very anxious).

I moved away again from this and decided to try something else I got out a copy of Fur Elise and he said he liked that piece I said we would just do the theme this week he started to play this very slowly (with me trying to count the quavers for him) then he suddenly sped up I asked him if he already knew the piece and he said no. It was by this time the end of the lesson again.

What would other teachers advise in this odd situation? I have forty other pupils and I am known for my understanding and patience. I know it is difficult when an adult turns up and you are not sure where they are but I am used to this and have not had a problem in the past with finding a persons level. I really do think it would be best for me to discontinue the lessons with this pupil as I feel a bit alarmed by these sudden outbursts of rage and wonder where it might lead to. Do others think I am being a bit of an alarmist?

[Melody Amour]

I'm not a teacher adagio but reading your post is alarming me? Is it possible that this pupil has something such as autism? I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to discontinue these lessons. It would be make me very nervous if a pupil was behaving in this way, and, no, I do not think you are an alarmist.

[mcm]

There is obviously something very wrong with this bloke - his behaviour is not at all reasonable. If I were you I would discontinue the lessons forthwith. He may be manic-depressive or autistic or schizophrenic or something, which is sad, but it is not your job to treat him. As it is you might just find yourself being strangled in a fit of irrational rage.

[jo.clarinet]

This all sounds very dodgy - and potentially dangerous for you. I'd steer well clear! There is quite obviously something going on that you've not been told about.....

[JohnS]

I wouldn't even try to get to the bottom of it. For your own sake (and perhaps safety) I would discontinue lessons.

[Amber]

It does sound as though he has some mental health problems, and I feel very concerned that you could be putting yourself at risk to work with him, particularly if you are working from home. You don't mention whether there is anyone else around when you are seeing him.

If you have a good relationship with your piano tuner maybe you could have a discreet word with him/her to see if you can find out a bit more about this man. But it does sound as though you would be best off to discontinue the lessons. With forty other pupils, it is not as though you need to take on just anyone, and it's not worth putting yourself at risk.

[elidatrading]

It sounds as if he's autistic, doesn't it.

[susiejean]

About 5 or so years ago I was teaching Horticulture at college (yes, I know!), and about half of my classes were learning difficulties/mental health problems. I think if he's managed to contact you and turn up and also hold a fairly lucid conversation he's probably not autistic although the outbursts of rage would indicate so. The fact that he doesn't finish things, moves on quickly after his outbursts and has unusual snatches of knowledge seems to lean more towards a schizophrenic and more worryingly, one who might be off his medication. This is VERY dangerous and I think you need to find out a little bit about this man if you can, whether you keep him on or not. Did you find he muttered to himself a lot during the lessons or seemed edgy, nervous and twitchy?

[jacobvaneyck]

My initial reaction was he is not being straight about his background, saying he has not done piano and can do so much, but mostly from memory/ear. His outbursts are definitely more concerning. I would second the advice of having someone else around.

For those who think it is autism, let me say I am autistic and don't recall behaving like this in a lesson, ever. In saying that, there could still be good reasons, though I appreciate it's hard to teach piano in these circumstances. If it were me I would probably consider getting rid of him, though none of us know this man in person. It's your decison.

Definitely tread carefully whatever the reasons might be.

[andante_in_c]

Just to put another perspective on it...

I would have agreed with the other posters about the man's outbursts if it not for the fact that my own piano teacher has an adult student who behaves in a remarkably similar way. The man in question is a very high-achieving professional, semi-retired, who almost literally beats himself up at the sign of any weakness. It is fairly inconceivable that this man has mental problems - I can't give away any more details except to say that there would be no way he could have held down the sort of career he had with schizophrenia, and quite possibly not with any more than the mildest degree of autism.

His problem is simply that he cannot bear to see himself fail, having been extremely successful in other walks of life. Extreme alpha male syndrome, perhaps, but nothing more.

[adagiok5]

Just to put another perspective on it...

I would have agreed with the other posters about the man's outbursts if it not for the fact that my own piano teacher has an adult student who behaves in a remarkably similar way. The man in question is a very high-achieving professional, semi-retired, who almost literally beats himself up at the sign of any weakness. It is fairly inconceivable that this man has mental problems - I can't give away any more details except to say that there would be no way he could have held down the sort of career he had with schizophrenia, and quite possibly not with any more than the mildest degree of autism.

His problem is simply that he cannot bear to see himself fail, having been extremely successful in other walks of life. Extreme alpha male syndrome, perhaps, but nothing more.

Thank you for your response. I am interested in what you say as this man also had a highly succesful managerial career before he retired. He sounds very similar to the pupil your piano teacher has.

[adagiok5]

It does sound as though he has some mental health problems, and I feel very concerned that you could be putting yourself at risk to work with him, particularly if you are working from home. You don't mention whether there is anyone else around when you are seeing him.

If you have a good relationship with your piano tuner maybe you could have a discreet word with him/her to see if you can find out a bit more about this man. But it does sound as though you would be best off to discontinue the lessons. With forty other pupils, it is not as though you need to take on just anyone, and it's not worth putting yourself at risk.

.

I have spoken to my piano tuner he felt this man was not being very up front either. But did not know a lot about him as he had only tuned the new piano the first time the other day.

'It does sound as though he has some mental health problems, and I feel very concerned that you could be putting yourself at risk to work with him, particularly if you are working from home. You don't mention whether there is anyone else around when you are seeing him'

Yes, I am working from home and there is not normally someone around at home at the time he comes for his lesson my only saving grace there is that there is a pupil direcctly before his lesson and after.

Thank you for your reply Melody Amour

I'm not a teacher adagio but reading your post is alarming me? Is it possible that this pupil has something such as autism? I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to discontinue these lessons. It would be make me very nervous if a pupil was behaving in this way, and, no, I do not think you are an alarmist.

[quote name='noodle' date='Jun 16 2007, 03:10 PM' post='533745']
I think you have every right to be alarmed by this student and where these outbursts might lead. I have a feeling there is something he isn't telling you - in that he doesn't sound like a complete beginner to me. I was teaching a teenage girl earlier who has been playing the piano several years and has always been a student of mine. She only found out today what a 10th was (grade 5 theory book!) so I find it hard to believe that a complete beginner was able to identify a 10th. Someone with little or no knowledge of music would say they couldn't reach further than C - D or show you. As a teacher, I wouldn't feel comfortable with this student at all and for my own peace of mind I would probably discontinue teaching him.

Thank you for your advice Noodle

[ad_libitum]

I agree with Noodle. If it's not a medical problem, that's even more worrying to have someone supposedly "sane" acting like that in your house! If it is... well, I'd still say stay clear whatever the reason for the behaviour. If it alarms you then that should be enough cause to let him go, whether he means to do it or not.

[stevensfo]

He then said he had played around with the piano and found it hard to reach a 10th

Having experienced all sorts of people in my travels (Gosh-I sound like Marco Polo!) I would say that a person meeting someone else for the first time, for a lesson, may say things out of nervousness, and in an attempt to give the impression that they knew about the subject.

This guy may be highly strung, eccentric, stressed, silly, over-bearing, used to getting his own way, ...etc.

Had this person appeared many, many years ago, in the 'Jeeves and Wooster' era, the teacher would have fixed him with an icy stare and told him to sit down, stop being silly, and tell her exactly what his problem was!

The poor guy may simply be having a problem getting used to retirement, his new life etc.


Having said that, if you do decide to continue with him, to give yourself peace of mind, could you have somebody else around?

Steve

[Violinia]

Hmm, this is certainly a bit worrying, especially as you're alone in the house with him. I would suggest he might have a touch of Aspergers Syndrome (on the autistic spectrum) - or perhaps some kind of personality disorder relating to anxiety...

It would be good if you could find somebody who knows him well and can tell you whether any of these funny turns have ever spilled over into something violent. I certainly wouldn't feel safe being alone in the house with someone who behaved like this, and if a new pupil of mine behaved like this I'd feel like telling them to stop it immediately or else I just wouldn't be able to carry on teaching them.

Have you asked him if he's ever played another instrument? He may not realise it would help you to know about it if he has. I often find a pupil who has previously played another instrument to a fairly high standard can make unusual headway with the violin because they can already read music and already know whether a note is out of tune or not. Perhaps as well as a syndrome like Aspergers, he already plays something else (or used to) and finds it unbelievably frustrating that he isn't progressing as quickly as he thought he would? He's obviously been tinkering aroudn on the piano already - maybe he'd built up an impression that he was really rather good already? And became frustratingly disillusioned on the first lesson, because reality kicked in?

Or perhaps, as a former higher achiever he just can't bear not to be good straight away at everything he puts his hand to? An instrumental teacher friend of mine had to sack a pupil of hers - a retired headmistress - a while back. This woman was completely impossible, apparently, and wouldn't accept any of my friend's constructive criticism, to the extent that she'd start shouting at my friend during lessons! There are certainly some odd people about, but the man in your case could be dangerous and if I was in your position I would be reluctant to continue teaching him unless I knew exactly what these strange outbursts are really about.

He really does owe you an explanation.

Please be careful and I hope you manage to sort this out asap.