G # Minor Or A Flat Min? Options

[stratlg]

Hello all! I'm designing a scale book and I'm wondering if there is a standard upon which music publishers rely as far as deciding which name a scale receives? Is it equally acceptable to name a scale G# Minor as it is A Flat Minor? It seems like an arbitrary decision, so I am just going to pick A Flat Minor... is this something I should be concerned with?

[teenviolinist]

It has to be G# minor, I can't remember why, my violin teacher told me when I asked why the scale book writers didn't write it as A flat minor because I found that easier... I'll ask her and tell you... something like A flat minor and G# minor are actually not enharmonically related and the relative key of A flat minor is C flat major with 7 flats. I think its all about both ease of reading for the player and musical details and when there's a dispute between the two, details comes first....

[stratlg]

It's more likely to be G#minor because it is the relative minor of Bmajor and has 5 sharps. If you call it Ab minor, then it's relative major would be Cb major and that's more awkward from the key signature point of view. In most scale books, it's called G# minor and it says enharmonic Ab in brackets beside it.

Thanks for the reply! Fantastic point... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[teenviolinist]

.. something like A flat minor and G# minor are actually not enharmonically related

Sorry, but they are. G# is the enharmonic equivalent of Ab!

Yes I know... like I said I can't remember exactly what my teacher told me.. obviously it wasn't that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[kenm]

Hello all! I'm designing a scale book and I'm wondering if there is a standard upon which music publishers rely as far as deciding which name a scale receives? Is it equally acceptable to name a scale G# Minor as it is A Flat Minor? It seems like an arbitrary decision, so I am just going to pick A Flat Minor... is this something I should be concerned with?

In this household we agree that it is just as acceptable to name G# minor G# minor as it is to name Ab minor Ab minor. Both scales exist, but only on fixed tuning instruments do they have to sound the same. Personally, I find it somewhat surprising that people would rather cope with Fx than with Cb and Fb. Why don't you put both scales in your book? Your complete set would be Cb major to C# major and their relative minors.

[sarah-flute]

I've always thought of G# minor as Ab minor on the piano - but neither name bothers me. I know what's being asked for whichever equivalent is used. After all, unless one is reading from the printed music, on an untunable instrument like the piano, it makes zero difference to the notes one plays.

[andante_in_c]

The Trinity Guildhall Grade 6 recorder syllabus asks for Ab, rather than G# minor. I suspect this is because the scale/arpeggio on an F instrument is fingered the same way as Eb minor on a C instrument, and it is therefore less confusing to think of it by its flat name.

My candidate this week had a total blind spot about this scale, and, as she was trying to work out what to play, could hear the examiner muttering under his breath, 'Why have they called it Ab minor? It should be G# minor'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Roseau]

I prefer to think about it as Ab because I tend not to think about relative majors/minors but instead think of the major scale and flatten the third (etc.) to turn it into a minor scale. I think this is because when I practised scales on the piano I used to play every possible scale starting on one particular note.

My oboe teacher says that this is a pianist's way of doing things and on a woodwind instrument fingering is more logical (and easier to remember) if you think major/relative minor and it should therefore be G# because it is the relative minor of B major. He is probably right if you are learning them from scratch but I still prefer my way.

[briantrumpet]

You need to know and understand both, so I'd put both in - then people can choose which way they want to learn it. Bass clef tuba players and trombonists will prefer flats .... certainly tuba players usually find it easier initially to think of B major as C-flat major. It also has the advantage that you're looking at naturals for the altered notes in the harmonic and melodic minor scales, rather than double-sharps. Personally, I hate D# minor - I find Eb minor is so much easier to think about.

But the thing is, once you got it under your fingers (whatever the notation looks like) you still need to be able to relate that finger pattern to either notation - shaps or flats. So, as I say, I'd put both in, side-by-side.

Brian

[sbhoa]

I prefer to think about it as Ab because I tend not to think about relative majors/minors but instead think of the major scale and flatten the third (etc.) to turn it into a minor scale. I think this is because when I practised scales on the piano I used to play every possible scale starting on one particular note.

My oboe teacher says that this is a pianist's way of doing things and on a woodwind instrument fingering is more logical (and easier to remember) if you think major/relative minor and it should therefore be G# because it is the relative minor of B major. He is probably right if you are learning them from scratch but I still prefer my way.

I'm not sure about it being the pianists way..... or not until about grade 5 at least.
I encourage my students to practice scales in related pairs to cement the idea of the shared key signature.
I only practised by playing everything on a particular starting note when I knew the related keys inside out.

[janexxx]

*goes to check Carl Flesch scale book*

G# minor

I guess purely because of the number of #s vs bs in the key signature

[Roseau]

I prefer to think about it as Ab because I tend not to think about relative majors/minors but instead think of the major scale and flatten the third (etc.) to turn it into a minor scale. I think this is because when I practised scales on the piano I used to play every possible scale starting on one particular note.

My oboe teacher says that this is a pianist's way of doing things and on a woodwind instrument fingering is more logical (and easier to remember) if you think major/relative minor and it should therefore be G# because it is the relative minor of B major. He is probably right if you are learning them from scratch but I still prefer my way.

I'm not sure about it being the pianists way..... or not until about grade 5 at least.
I encourage my students to practice scales in related pairs to cement the idea of the shared key signature.
I only practised by playing everything on a particular starting note when I knew the related keys inside out.

You're probably right. I don't really remember how I first learnt scales on the piano but presume I did so by related keys. I was thinking back to the time when I would happily play scales for an hour a day but this was preparing for grade 8.

[fsharpminor]

Well there are certainly pieces written in both G#minor and A flat minor (though probably more of the former). I personally find it much easier to read A flat minor than G#minor, though most of the time I prefer sharps!
The A flat minor bit that comes to mind is in the first movement (3rd variation I think)of Beethoven Sonata Op 26, though some editions just have it in 4 flats and turn it to minor by accidentals. My version is in 7 flats.
Of course the tonality of the piece is A flat so they would never publish it in G#minor.

[janexxx]

Maybe it is always G# minor so the student can't crack that joke about a piano down a mine-shaft.

[Cyrilla]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)