Recorder Thread!, All Sizes Welcome... Options

[RAM]

Has anyone got any suggestions for tenor recorders? I have my eye on a couple but wanted to know if I should be looking Yamaha or Aulos?

Thanks

[katyjay]

Has anyone got any suggestions for tenor recorders? I have my eye on a couple but wanted to know if I should be looking Yamaha or Aulos?

Thanks

With tenors, the only real answer is to try them out. Different instruments suit different hand sizes and shapes.

[CJB]

Has anyone got any suggestions for tenor recorders? I have my eye on a couple but wanted to know if I should be looking Yamaha or Aulos?

Thanks

With tenors, the only real answer is to try them out. Different instruments suit different hand sizes and shapes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I find my old Aulos (over 25 years old) a painful stretch and as its got a few intonation issues (D-D in particular is not an octave) it is possibly my least loved recorder. I know you've got bigger hands than me but the stretch on tenor is particularly awkward and all makes have subtly different hole placements.

[RAM]

Has anyone got any suggestions for tenor recorders? I have my eye on a couple but wanted to know if I should be looking Yamaha or Aulos?

Thanks

With tenors, the only real answer is to try them out. Different instruments suit different hand sizes and shapes.

Has anyone got any suggestions for tenor recorders? I have my eye on a couple but wanted to know if I should be looking Yamaha or Aulos?

Thanks

With tenors, the only real answer is to try them out. Different instruments suit different hand sizes and shapes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I find my old Aulos (over 25 years old) a painful stretch and as its got a few intonation issues (D-D in particular is not an octave) it is possibly my least loved recorder. I know you've got bigger hands than me but the stretch on tenor is particularly awkward and all makes have subtly different hole placements.

Thanks for that info (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does anybody know anything about a Schott's Concert Tenor Recorder in Pear Wood? Would it be worth getting a second hand wooden recorder or should I stick to plastic at the moment?

[RoseRodent]

Has anyone any experience of the new Triebert plastic recorders that have come in at the Early music Shop? I'm on the lookout for a new tenor. I don't want to invest heavily because I rarely play tenor, and even the cheapest wooden tenors are a significant investment unless you can snag one second hand. I am replacing my Hornby tenor because the mouthpiece on it is enormous, and the Triebert looks like it's significantly more subtle, plus it has a C# key on the Triebert. Just wondered if anyone had one or had seen them in real life anywhere?

EDIT: On a similar note, has anyone played the Aulos 211? I can't see how it can be smaller and still have the tone of a tenor, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.

[katyjay]

OK sadly looks like plastic trebles, tenors and basses are made my only a limited no of manufacturers. I was disappointed in the Yamahas myself but maybe the bigger ones are nicer. Worth tryng the Triebert I would think.

I've tried the Triebert tenor and bass. They're good instruments for their price - nice low registers on both, upper notes maybe not the same quality but still acceptable. The very top notes on the bass are a bit sensitive - I had to be very careful of my thumb position for top E, F and G.

The Triebert tenor is a little too stretchy for my hands (especially the G and D holes), but that's a personal thing. You can never tell what will suit you until you try it.

Has anyone played any Triebert recorders? Verdicts?

Has anyone played any Triebert recorders? Verdicts?

Yes: a couple of posts back I said:

I've tried the Triebert tenor and bass. They're good instruments for their price - nice low registers on both, upper notes maybe not the same quality but still acceptable. The very top notes on the bass are a bit sensitive - I had to be very careful of my thumb position for top E, F and G.

The Triebert tenor is a little too stretchy for my hands (especially the G and D holes), but that's a personal thing. You can never tell what will suit you until you try it.

Has anyone any experience of the new Triebert plastic recorders that have come in at the Early music Shop? I'm on the lookout for a new tenor. I don't want to invest heavily because I rarely play tenor, and even the cheapest wooden tenors are a significant investment unless you can snag one second hand. I am replacing my Hornby tenor because the mouthpiece on it is enormous, and the Triebert looks like it's significantly more subtle, plus it has a C# key on the Triebert. Just wondered if anyone had one or had seen them in real life anywhere?

EDIT: On a similar note, has anyone played the Aulos 211? I can't see how it can be smaller and still have the tone of a tenor, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.

There is a payoff between the diameter of the bore and the length of the tube to get the same notes, so you can have a slightly shorter instrument. Also can improve stretches by changing the angle that the holes are drilled through the bore. Not clever enough at the physics to understand it though.

[RAM]

Fun recorder video of the day!

Shove: Michela Petri - Donna Lee (Live) into YouTube

A nice little piece showing off Michelas talent and the wide musical range of the recorder! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[limh]

EDIT: On a similar note, has anyone played the Aulos 211? I can't see how it can be smaller and still have the tone of a tenor, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.

Herr Helmholtz would have had us believe that a recorder works just like a violin string, with nice little waves along its length, and the pitch determined by length. But he also invented a resonator shaped more like an ocarina, the ultimate short-fat-low-pitched-recorder. Any whistle is a resonating volume, not just a long thin thing, and wide pipes have a lower pitch than narrow ones (which do approximate to a 1-dimensional string situation). Try googling for Philippe Bolton for some nice diagrams of waves in recorders. Incientally, someone once patented a 16'-pitch pipe thing for organs, which was small enough to fit into the organist's seat...

[RAM]

I've just got the Hortus Musicus Four Telemann Sontas for treble and reading throught the Preface it seems to suggest that it is written in the Old French Violin Clef (g on the first line). Is this any different to normal music?
The first piece is the Sonata in F major TWV 41:F2 - is the first note (which is two ledger lines above the stave) still a C or is it diffeent?

Also some notes have a little plus sign (+) over them - what does this mean?

I'm confused.........(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[RoseRodent]

I've just got the Hortus Musicus Four Telemann Sontas for treble and reading throught the Preface it seems to suggest that it is written in the Old French Violin Clef (g on the first line). Is this any different to normal music?
The first piece is the Sonata in F major TWV 41:F2 - is the first note (which is two ledger lines above the stave) still a C or is it diffeent?

Also some notes have a little plus sign (+) over them - what does this mean?

I'm confused......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

If the clef is centred around a G and it's anything other than a C clef (like a viola clef but on any line) then it's almost certainly no different from what you are used to as the treble clef is a G clef anyway. The plus sign is usually for a trill, but I believe it can be used for another ornament at the player's discretion, something of an "add interest here" sign.

[Tenor Viol]

I've just got the Hortus Musicus Four Telemann Sontas for treble and reading throught the Preface it seems to suggest that it is written in the Old French Violin Clef (g on the first line). Is this any different to normal music?
The first piece is the Sonata in F major TWV 41:F2 - is the first note (which is two ledger lines above the stave) still a C or is it diffeent?

Also some notes have a little plus sign (+) over them - what does this mean?

I'm confused......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Where's the treble clef (g clef) symbol? If it's in its usual place on the second line, then it's a normal G2 treble clef. If it's lower than you'd expect, sitting on line 1 (where you's expect an E) then it is a G1 aka French violin clef or soprano clef, In which case, first line is a G, not an E.....

I suspect it's just saying that's what the original clef was: it's unlikely a modern edition would be that unkind...

[RAM]

I've just got the Hortus Musicus Four Telemann Sontas for treble and reading throught the Preface it seems to suggest that it is written in the Old French Violin Clef (g on the first line). Is this any different to normal music?
The first piece is the Sonata in F major TWV 41:F2 - is the first note (which is two ledger lines above the stave) still a C or is it diffeent?

Also some notes have a little plus sign (+) over them - what does this mean?

I'm confused......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Where's the treble clef (g clef) symbol? If it's in its usual place on the second line, then it's a normal G2 treble clef. If it's lower than you'd expect, sitting on line 1 (where you's expect an E) then it is a G1 aka French violin clef or soprano clef, In which case, first line is a G, not an E.....

I suspect it's just saying that's what the original clef was: it's unlikely a modern edition would be that unkind...

It is in the normal place and I think that from watcing Youtube Videos and from playing through the music that is right to read it normaly but the preface is confusing:
'The recorder is notated throughout in the old French violin clef (g' on the first line). This method of notation was introduved towards the end of the 17th century. It reduced the number of ledger lines which are necessary for the upper octave of the recorder, particularly favoured at that time.'

[Maizie]

I suspect it's telling you that it was originally published in French violin clef. In the printed music, is it a normal treble clef? If so, just play as normal!
FVClef is just dropped down a line, so a note on the bottom line is G and you play G. It's like reading bass clef (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif). You'll find a lot of the music on imslp is in FVClef so it can be useful to learn to read if you want to play from facsimiles.

The + is the sign for an ornament. Usually you'd put in a trill (there is an argument that the cross is a corrupted t for trill, we are in the era before the modern trill notation was invented). However, it wouldn't be wrong to make it a different ornament if you so choose in this sort of baroque music, where ornamentation can be almost improvisatory. Listen to different recordings and you'll hear some people minimally ornament, and some ornament almost out of recognition - neither is wrong, it's just interpretation.

Compare this to someone like Hottetterre - he has a gazillion different symbols in his music, and prescribes which ornament is which symbol and you don't have that freedom of interpretation with your ornaments.

[RAM]

I suspect it's telling you that it was originally published in French violin clef. In the printed music, is it a normal treble clef? If so, just play as normal!
FVClef is just dropped down a line, so a note on the bottom line is G and you play G. It's like reading bass clef (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif). You'll find a lot of the music on imslp is in FVClef so it can be useful to learn to read if you want to play from facsimiles.

The + is the sign for an ornament. Usually you'd put in a trill (there is an argument that the cross is a corrupted t for trill, we are in the era before the modern trill notation was invented). However, it wouldn't be wrong to make it a different ornament if you so choose in this sort of baroque music, where ornamentation can be almost improvisatory. Listen to different recordings and you'll hear some people minimally ornament, and some ornament almost out of recognition - neither is wrong, it's just interpretation.

Compare this to someone like Hottetterre - he has a gazillion different symbols in his music, and prescribes which ornament is which symbol and you don't have that freedom of interpretation with your ornaments.

Thanks Maizie, I'm now pretty sure it's written in ordinary clef - what a confusing preface! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Does anybody know what sort of grade the first movement of Telemanns' Sonata in F major (in the Hortus Musicus book) is? I've surprised myself with my ability to play it; the only thing that proving hard is hitting the high notes without a run up and the semi quaver runs over the break (using a clarinet term here, is this what recorder players call it??! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[andante_in_c]

Does anybody know what sort of grade the first movement of Telemanns' Sonata in F major (in the Hortus Musicus book) is? I've surprised myself with my ability to play it; the only thing that proving hard is hitting the high notes without a run up and the semi quaver runs over the break (using a clarinet term here, is this what recorder players call it??! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Not sure about recorder grades, but it's currently a Grade 5 flute piece.