Oboe And Cor Anglais...the Deed Is Done, My day with Howarths Options

[A.U.K]

Claire you'll be spoilt for choice Howarths generally keep a good selection of thumbplate instruments in stock...so no worries there... I am sure you will find a new Oboe very easily...I'm not sure what you are currently playing on, for some reason I think you are playing a Marigaux or am I just imagining that? I did see a couple of very nice Marigaux's and some beautiful Howarths (AmandaL would have been in seventh heaven (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) there were a couple of Rigoutats as well which looked very good though I didn't have a "Peep" on them...Go and see what you think...

Good luck

Andrew

[AmandaL]

and some beautiful Howarths (AmandaL would have been in seventh heaven (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I've got enough oboes already, but I still can't help drooling when I look in those Howarth display cases.

It's almost like an addiction! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[A.U.K]

AmandaL "JUST SAY NO" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .....I do not what you mean though its lovely to see them all...I also love looking at Flutes all sparkling away and the contrast between the wooden bodies with their silver headjoints. There is something quite hypnotic about them all...maybe I was a magpie in a previous life (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

P.S. for what its worth I am bored with waiting already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Andrew

[Roseau]

Hi Andrew,
I think I was in Howarths at the same time as you (unless there are two Andrews interested in Loree instruments who were in Howarths on Tuesday!).

I was picking up my Marigaux oboe which they had just serviced and was standing at the counter at about 11.45 while you were talking to Mike about cases.

[A.U.K]

Yes that would be me...how funny...I do wish I had known I would have said hello...I do remember you being there but the day was so involved, Oboes, cases, everything had to be replaced so there was a lot going on and typical man I cannot multi task (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ah well maybe next time we will say hello...

P.S please tell everybody how incredibly young and handsome I am and of course terribly slim (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[itchy1]

Andrew, I'm just interested, but what is it about the Loree oboes that you like?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have to say I don't know much about the relative merits of English vs French. My teacher plays a Howarth XL and a couple of local players play Marigaux (sounds lovely) and Rigoutat respectively.
I'm not so keen on the Rigoutat as it sounds quite "harsh" and bright/ reedy but I think that harsh sound is as much to do with the player... Do the French oboes have a different quality of sound as compared to English instruments?

Another question...what are the relative merits of thumbplate and conservatoire?? I'm a typical English thumbplater!

Sorry about all these questions, but I'd love to know more.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Wai Kit Leung]

Andrew, I'm just interested, but what is it about the Loree oboes that you like?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have to say I don't know much about the relative merits of English vs French. My teacher plays a Howarth XL and a couple of local players play Marigaux (sounds lovely) and Rigoutat respectively.
I'm not so keen on the Rigoutat as it sounds quite "harsh" and bright/ reedy but I think that harsh sound is as much to do with the player... Do the French oboes have a different quality of sound as compared to English instruments?

Another question...what are the relative merits of thumbplate and conservatoire?? I'm a typical English thumbplater!

Sorry about all these questions, but I'd love to know more.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Each oboe maker has its own characteristic sound and there can be as much difference between Marigaux and Rigoutat as between English and French. A much bigger influenece on the sound would be the player and the reed. Rigoutat oboes do sound reedier, but in a nice way. Perhaps the particular player you heard had a harsh tone? Maurice Bourgue, Heinz Holliger and Thomas Indermuhle all play on Rigoutat.

The Thumbplate system was the "Systeme 5" that had since been superseded by the Conservatoire system ("Systeme 6") in 1880 (!!!). Somehow in Britain and some other commonwealth countries the Thumbplate system has lingered on till today. Certain passages are easier on one system and certain passages are easier on the other. The Bb and C sound more open on the Thumbplate system because you don't put your R.H. 1st finger down. Hope this helps!

[A.U.K]

Hi itchy thats a very good question...

I suppose as my first Oboe was a Loree I have always had a liking for them, it sang and was incredibly open and was a joy to play.. I tried all the others but always came back to Loree's. I suppose its what I had come to like and we all get a ideal sound in our heads and it stays with us.

As for Howarths, Marigaux, Rigoutat, well each player will sound different on each Oboe, even the same make of Oboe individually will sound slightly different in the same hands...if that makes any sense...it all boils down to what we like as individuals what makes it special to us who knows...I suppose for me the Loree always had that slivery sound which was beautiful,albeit a little light. The Loree Royale has a slightly thicker wood which in turn has darkend the sound and slightly increased the projection...so now we are sitting somewhere between a traditional Loree and Marigaux which for me is a happy medium.

As for thumbplate versus Conservatiore...well the debate continues...most English players use a thumbplate...mainly because that was what was available and what their teachers used. My first teacher played on a conservatoire system and I followed suit so its what I know. It is widely accepted that with a thumbplate you have more options fingering wise but the conservatoire system is equally adaptable and widely used throughout the world so there has to be something in it...but apart from that I cannot add more to make my case for the Conservatoire system...

Hope this answers some of your questions...

regards

Andrew

[notmusimum]

thank you Andrew dor the explaination. Itchy asked the question that was also in my mind.

[itchy1]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif) for all the answers! It's all very interesting.
I'm pretty sure that the harsh sound that I heard from the Rigoutat I heard played recently is the player not the instrument.
One day I'd love to go to Howarth's and try a lot of different instruments, but unfortunately lack of bank balance, time and distance make it a far distant dream... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
(now if Howarth's could relocate to Leeds or somewhere...an even more distant dream methinks)

[Roseau]

Yes that would be me...how funny...I do wish I had known I would have said hello...I do remember you being there but the day was so involved, Oboes, cases, everything had to be replaced so there was a lot going on and typical man I cannot multi task (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ah well maybe next time we will say hello...

P.S please tell everybody how incredibly young and handsome I am and of course terribly slim (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I left the shop just after you and did think of calling up the road "Are you Andrew from the forums?" but I was too embarrassed in case you weren't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Going back to the conservatoire/thumbplate question, I have never tried a thumbplate but something that occured to me when you said you found it awkward was whether you actually keep your left thumb on the instrument all the time. I know I don't (and neither does my teacher) so I imagine it might be quite hard to remember to keep it in the same place if I did try a thumb plate.

[Claire21]

Itchy, I'm really glad you asked that question, I've been wondering about that too, which is what's inspired my upcoming visit to Howarths (luckily I'm close enough to London!). I've only ever played on my Loree since I'm an 'oboe grown up', because that's what my parents bought for me when I was 18 on the recommendation of my teacher (and that was, oooh, 15 years ago now). Even with my bestest reeds it doesn't quite match the 'ideal sound' in my head, it's a bit too sweet and silvery, as Andrew put it. I think I want something with a bit more 'oomph'. (Which sounds like I could be going towards a Marigaux?)

But I might get to Howarths and decide I like Loree best after all, who knows! I just want to know, really, how different they all sound.

On the conservatoire/ thumbplate issue: I managed to turn up to a rehearsal about a year ago without my oboe ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) don't ask.... ) so I borrowed the instrument of the cor player who was only playing cor at the time - and it turned out to be a conservatoire system... Nearly drove me nuts! Luckily I had a forgiving conductor...

[A.U.K]

Yes that would be me...how funny...I do wish I had known I would have said hello...I do remember you being there but the day was so involved, Oboes, cases, everything had to be replaced so there was a lot going on and typical man I cannot multi task (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ah well maybe next time we will say hello...

P.S please tell everybody how incredibly young and handsome I am and of course terribly slim (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I left the shop just after you and did think of calling up the road "Are you Andrew from the forums?" but I was too embarrassed in case you weren't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Going back to the conservatoire/thumbplate question, I have never tried a thumbplate but something that occured to me when you said you found it awkward was whether you actually keep your left thumb on the instrument all the time. I know I don't (and neither does my teacher) so I imagine it might be quite hard to remember to keep it in the same place if I did try a thumb plate.

I do wish you had...but I do understand you were concerned that it might not have been little me..

as for the thumplate...yes I would find it very hard to keep my thumb in place I am quite sure it waggles around all the time...it would have a mind of its own

[AmandaL]

I also love looking at Flutes all sparkling away and the contrast between the wooden bodies with their silver headjoints. There is something quite hypnotic about them all...maybe I was a magpie in a previous life (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I would agree. That's why I also like the flute - something alluring about playing a bright and shiney instrument.

Back on the topic of oboes. Loree with their silvery sound. For that reason I find they lack power even when it's needed, especially since oboe parts are frequently written to 'cut through' over the rest of the orchestra. Perhaps this is more relevant now than it was 50 years ago. Playing styles and requirements have changed, which is one reason why Howarth went to the trouble of re-designing the bore of their S5 during the 1990's and making the thick-walled XL.

[A.U.K]

Ah yes...the silvery sound was and is still a little light...but...the Royale like the Howarth XL has thicker walls and has darkened the sound and increased the projection which is far more what I was looking for...the more traditional Loree's can lack projection which I suspect is why they remodelled this new instrument.