What Is An Adult Learner? Options

[sarah-flute]

Does that mean, though, that you think that those who have got beyond grade level, even if they achieved that as adults, stop becoming adult learners?

I think it's a fuzzy definition, but certainly IMO if you started as an adult, you're an adult learner.

Then there are those who started as youngsters (maybe as teens or even younger) and who have continued more or less to have lessons but as adults are still well down the grades as far as level goes.

Oh yes - I meant that as why I would consider anacrusis an adult learner - not as a definitive definition! Because I consider myself one too, and I don't really fit it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The thought of Anacrusis (and others) on this are quite thought provoking and I'm getting a new slant on diplomas. This may be simplistic (Send out a lynch mob if I'm out of order) but it seems to me that for some at least the way they feel on passing their diploma is a little(maybe a very little) like my thought at grade 5 and then grade 8....... before both of those exam I sort of had tihs idea that reaching that level would somehow mean that I was actually getting reasonable competent but when I got there I found that things hadn't changed and I was still wary of being found out as really not very good.

Not that I have passed a dip (or even grade 8) but I can well imagine that many less confident people might feel that way.

[sbhoa]

The thought of Anacrusis (and others) on this are quite thought provoking and I'm getting a new slant on diplomas. This may be simplistic (Send out a lynch mob if I'm out of order) but it seems to me that for some at least the way they feel on passing their diploma is a little(maybe a very little) like my thought at grade 5 and then grade 8....... before both of those exam I sort of had tihs idea that reaching that level would somehow mean that I was actually getting reasonable competent but when I got there I found that things hadn't changed and I was still wary of being found out as really not very good.

Not that I have passed a dip (or even grade 8) but I can well imagine that many less confident people might feel that way.

The thing is I'd always thought that taking and passing a diploma pretty well presupposed a certain level of both confidence and competence. One reason why it's not even on my wish list of things to do, to me it just seems a totally unrealistic idea. (or maybe I'm just lazy, a wimp or both)

[anacrusis]

Grade 7 was amazing.
I'd failed grade 7 piano as a teenager, and that stuck in my gizzard for years - I'd always wanted somehow to redress the balance. I knew I had musical instincts, but there was no outlet to realise them, because I never was much of a pianist, and never will be; the oboe was really out of reach for financial reasons, because there were no funds to upgrade my instrument - when I took up the recorder initially it was to have something - anything - to play, and I got well and truly stuck trying to teach myself.
When I was 38, my husband found me a teacher, and the stuck recorder player was able to learn at last - it was like letting the cork out of a bottle of fizz. I'd never improved my playing so quickly before - helped massively by the fact that I was also sitting in on my kids' piano lessons, and absorbing practice techniques and tips from their teacher as well as having my own inspirational teacher to guide what I was doing. When he suggested I do a grade, I was stunned - I'd really not thought such a thing to be possible any more - and when he suggested grade 7 I was gobsmacked. (and even more surprised that I agreed to give it a try!) Despite failing the scales, I got the best mark I'd ever got in any musical exam, and was on a high for weeks afterwards.

Grade 8 was a dream.
This one took place in a bit of a haze because I'd been having to adjust to a family member having developed a chronic medical condition just the week before - I thought "what the heck" and went for it, playing well because I knew there were more important things in life than exams - and when the result came through, I was on air again, having done what I had never dreamed of - not just grade 8, but a good grade 8, two years after starting lessons.

Even doing ATCL, and getting almost the same percentage mark as I had for grades 7 and 8, felt absolutely fantastic - I've certainly not got complacent, and I don't regard myself as a wonderful player - doing this has made me so aware of just how far there still is to go. The ceiling goes on rising, you see - each of those steps has been exciting to take and exhilarating to succeed in, but there's more to do. I like that - it means music isn't going to get boring any time soon. But in the meantime, I'm learning still, I've not "arrived", and I have the same worries and insecurities that all musicians have, especially those setting out after adulthood. As far as dcmbarton's comment goes, about unnecessary categorisation - I have to say that since we do get judged by the rule that kids who've done well are talented, but adults who do well - well, we expect it don't we? - it is important that we can be described as adult learners, and our achievements acknowledged for what they are. I understand the reason why the adult learner concerts seek to keep the dip level players out - but it still does rankle a bit, I must admit.

Splodge: what a wonderful definition - and I fit it perfectly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .

[andante_in_c]

The thing is I'd always thought that taking and passing a diploma pretty well presupposed a certain level of both confidence and competence.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Well, it certainly didn't with me. But if I think about how I feel about my piano-playing, I can sort of see where you're coming from. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[BachPensioner]

It's one of the real difficulties adult learners have - we tend to find ourselves learning in isolation (mind you, I guess that is a problem for pianists of all ages), with few opportunities to share our music either with friends or an audience (better still a friendly audience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).

I'll be a friendly audience for you but only on one condition - that you will be a friendly audience for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Maizie]

I think you're an adult learner when you pay for your own lessons, have to motivate yourself and don't have the benefit of your Dad standing over you with a big stick saying, 'You will practise!'.

This is exactly what an adult learner is.
The difficultly isn't about this definition, it's just needs clear sub-categories of adult learning, such as:
Adult starter
Adult re-starter
Adult-never-stopped

I suppose the next difficulty is how much of a gap you can have before you turn from never-stopped to re-starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sbhoa]

I understand the reason why the adult learner concerts seek to keep the dip level players out - but it still does rankle a bit, I must admit.

It's not so much keeping dip level players out, we do have one or two usually, it's more a matter of the main target group being those lower down the learning ladder.
In some ways it's a question of balance..... if it's top heavy it can be a little dispiriting rather than inspirational for early grade participants.
As I said before we've kept away from any firm definition, leaving people to define themselves mostly.
It is still early days for the AL concerts and we are learning all the time about what works and the whole thing is evolving as we go.

[katyjay]

I understand the reason why the adult learner concerts seek to keep the dip level players out - but it still does rankle a bit, I must admit.

Actually they don't. Or I'd never have been eligible for the very first one I set up....

What we DO seek to do is to reach those learners who are nearer the beginning of the journey, and reassure them that the concerts are for them too, and that the argument "everyone will be better than me so I don't want to take part" is not valid. We've heard that so many times that we've lost count.

But, essentially, the adult learner concerts are for people who are at a stage where they cannot yet find or make their own performance opportunities. This is why people at higher levels, who quite often DO have those opportunities, are not our priority.

[sarah-flute]

doing this has made me so aware of just how far there still is to go. The ceiling goes on rising, you see - each of those steps has been exciting to take and exhilarating to succeed in, but there's more to do. I like that - it means music isn't going to get boring any time soon. But in the meantime, I'm learning still, I've not "arrived", and I have the same worries and insecurities that all musicians have, especially those setting out after adulthood.

I think that's well summed up how most people seem to feel... "if I can just get to..." turns into "maybe I'll try for..." - regardless of whether the starting point is prep test or grade 7.

As far as dcmbarton's comment goes, about unnecessary categorisation - I have to say that since we do get judged by the rule that kids who've done well are talented, but adults who do well - well, we expect it don't we? - it is important that we can be described as adult learners, and our achievements acknowledged for what they are.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[anacrusis]

My perception and experience is different - I do think people treat us differently, and have different expectations of us because we're grown up.

Hands up who else has been asked why on earth they're taking music lessons as adults? I certainly have.

Bachpensioner - I'd be delighted to, and thank you. If I manage a public recital up here some time, I'll let you know - and do let me know likewise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . In the meantime, it's Doors Open Day tomorrow, and I think I'll be tootling at St Cecilia's at intermittent intervals during the day, but there isn't a timetable as such. The only thing I do know is that I'll have to be away by about 4:30 because I need to take one of the kids to ballet.

[sarah-flute]

Hands up who else has been asked why on earth they're taking music lessons as adults? I certainly have.

Soooooooooooooo many times.

And "Why do you need to take lessons? You already play the <instrument>"

Isn't it great how a simple question has provoked such an interesting thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[LooneyTunes]

Hands up who else has been asked why on earth they're taking music lessons as adults? I certainly have.

Soooooooooooooo many times.

And "Why do you need to take lessons? You already play the <instrument>"

Isn't it great how a simple question has provoked such an interesting thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I've also been asked, by a non-musical mum, whether I took up piano and violin to compete with my daughter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Ermmm.... no......I'm doing it for me and having a great time learning!

[sarah-flute]

I've also been asked, by a non-musical mum, whether I took up piano and violin to compete with my daughter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

My mum took up violin when I was learning - it was great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) She got grade 2 with merit as I recall!

[sarah-flute]

Hands up who else has been asked why on earth they're taking music lessons as adults? I certainly have.

Soooooooooooooo many times.

And "Why do you need to take lessons? You already play the <instrument>"

Isn't it great how a simple question has provoked such an interesting thread?

I've never been asked this question, and I don't know anyone who has.

Assuming you mean the "why are you taking lessons/why do you need lessons", I've been asked both more times than I care to remember, and know many others who have too... neither proves much either way but clearly (see above) it isn't just me!

[LooneyTunes]

I've also been asked, by a non-musical mum, whether I took up piano and violin to compete with my daughter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

My mum took up violin when I was learning - it was great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) She got grade 2 with merit as I recall!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Well done to your mum! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

My daughter loves looking at my certs, tells all her friends about me and keeps asking me when my next exam is! I think that means she's rather proud of my achievements........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)